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Original poster

Deaf couple having a baby - made me cry?

45 replies

beachyhead · 15/09/2004 09:47

I loved that documentary last night at 9pm when the deaf couple were waiting for their baby to see if he would be hearing or not. Just the whole life they lead and the constant smiles on their faces was a real pick me up. I'm sure MN would be a huge resource to deaf mums and mtbe. Did anyone else see it?

OP posts:

Blu · 15/09/2004 09:52

I thought it was a v good documentary - told the story v well from the couples point of view. I loved the mw using all the waiting time to learn some basic sign for the delivery - and the vicar having learned some too for the wedding - but his Mum hadn't managed even the most basic one word!

It seemed awful that the hospital couldn't have had interpreters on standby for the labour and birth.

Weren't they a lovely family?

auntyquated · 15/09/2004 09:52

i watched it, but just couldn't get my head around the fact taht they wanted the baby to be deaf. they thought paternal grandmother odd when she said she was feeling sad about the news that he was deaf. why would they want that for their child?

Original poster

beachyhead · 15/09/2004 09:56

I guess they wanted their baby to be like them. I think they Knew that it would be harder for the child but I think they felt they would be able to be a better parent if it was deaf. I do think the MIL was strange learning Spanish and French and not sign language. She felt so awkward on that hen weekend, and I didn't feel sorry for her either....

OP posts:

Hausfrau · 15/09/2004 10:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 10:32

I thought the programme was fab too. It was really interesting to watch. I can totally understand why the couple would have prefered to have a child with hearing loss.

a) They seem to have a very good close knit circle of deaf friends who sign. They were probably worried that the child would feel alienated from his immediate 'community' if he were hearing.

b) The girl (Claire) had a very positive upbringing in a household where everyone is deaf - her Mum, Dad and 2 brothers. So I can see that she would want the child to have a similarly positive and warm upbringing.

c) The father (Paul), didn't have a very positive childhood as a deaf person. It seemed to me that he wanted to give his son what he never had.

I agree that Paul's mother seemed very uncomfortable around deaf people, despite the fact that her 20-something son is a deaf person (you'd think she'd have had the chance to get used to it a bit by now, IYSWIM). I'm sure a lot of the strained relationship we saw was down to the fact that she recieved very dodgy advice re communicating with her son from the boarding school he attended ('DON'T LEARN TO SIGN').

Although I have to say that if one of my children was born with profound hearing loss, then I would make it my business to learn BSL and more about the deaf community well before my child was school-aged. I suspect she spent the first 5 years a bit shell-shocked, almost like if she ignored it, it would go away.

All in all I thought they were a very warm family. I did feel that Paul's Mum was a little bullied by Claire's Mum, although frankly I found it quite difficult to feel any real sympathy for her. I thought it was a real positive step when she said that she would learn signs for her grandson. It's just a shame that she didn't have the strength of her convictions back when her own son was tiny.

coppertop · 15/09/2004 10:34

This is a contentious issue in the Deaf community. The debate often gets pretty heated. Some, as Auntyquated says, do not see deafness as a disability. If they have never been able to hear then they haven't really 'lost' anything IYSWIM. Deafness is more than just a way of life - it also has it's own language(s) and its own culture. Others say that as they've had a tough time growing up deaf then they wouldn't wish it on a child of their own. I fall into the "deafened" category. My hearing was fine until about 6 years ago when I developed otosclerosis. As I also had an uncle who was deaf from childhood (unconnected to otosclerosis) my ds's were/are in a high-risk category for deafness. It turned out they both have hypersensitive hearing, which brings difficulties of its own.

coppertop · 15/09/2004 10:35

Sorry - as HAUSFRAU said!

Thomcat · 15/09/2004 10:48

I didn't see the programme, but when I was in the hospital on Friday with Lottie I sat opposite a young couple and their twin girls. Both parents were deaf. The mother was very difficult to understand but I was so pleased that I was able to chat to her a bit through the limited signs that i have and made me more determined to learn more and to do BSL at night school. I did think how difficult it must be for their children (who weren't deaf) to learn sppech and wondered if their daughters had SALT as the parents really had almost no speech and the words they did use were near impossible to understand. They signed everything to their children and each other and had an intrepeteur with them.
Anyway like I say it made me more determined to be more fluent with my signing as it would have been great to have been able to have a proper chat with the mum.

Galaxy · 15/09/2004 10:50

message withdrawn

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 10:58

I have to say that I was a little peturbed by the young girl (also deaf) who collected Paul's mum from the station. In her car she had a little mirror on the dash which enabled her lip read her passengers. From believe it takes quite firm concentration to lip read, I couldn't help thinking that her attention was drastically taken from her driving and the road when she was in conversation with a passenger. I know that hearing drivers suffer a degree of loss of concentration on the job in hand when listening to the radio or chatting to a passenger, but at least we can keep our eyes on the road.

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 10:59

Sorry, should have been 'From what I believe it takes...' or 'I believe it takes...'

aloha · 15/09/2004 11:08

But do people who are paralysed want their child to be 'like them'? Do people with progressive illnesses want their children to be 'like them'? To be absolutely frank, and even thought I thought they seemed very lovely people (didnt' watch much of the documentary though), I still think this is a very dodgy attitude. Surely it is healthier to want your child to have every possible opportunity in life and to have the use of all their limbs and senses and limbs if that is possible. Of course, people with disabilities are every bit as valuable and can and do have rewarding, meaningful lives which contribute enormously to the world, but to actively wish your child to have to struggle just so they can be 'like you' seems like a kind of warped vanity. There is nothing a deaf chid can do that a hearing child couldn't. Hearing people can sign just as well as deaf people,but they don't need interpreters the whole time and can hear train announcements and listen to the radio/hear music/listen to birdsong. I can totally see why this couple wouldn't regard deafness as a tragedy of any kind, but to actually wish for it for their child seems quite a different issue.

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 11:11

FWIW, when Reese was actually born and here, Claire did say that she felt a degree of guilt for wishing deafness on her son.

Heathcliffscathy · 15/09/2004 11:16

thought it was a great and moving programme and is why the bbc should retain it's charter (it was bbc wasn't it???).

my one gripe was the editing of the wedding: thought it was a bit hamfisted and unfair to show shot of paul's mother looking grumpy and immediately follow it with clare's mother looking ecstatic...

i think maybe the reason that pauls mum didn't learn sign was shame that she hadn't in childhood as she was advised not to: to learn it now would be to admit that she had in some way failed him both in terms of not learning sign and also becuase she was devastated to learn that he was deaf.

wasn't clare's grandmother awful: so obviously ashamed of the fact that her son was deaf...and yet, you can understand that sort of prejudice as it was and is incredibly common.

until relatively recently to be deaf was a catastrophe in terms of the lack of understanding of the condition...very often deaf people labelled mad and put into insane asylums...

programme made me want to learn sign. however, i think that the deaf world is v v insular to the point of being anti hearing: dh used to go to a pub that was nearly all deaf people, and has never felt as totally unwelcome as a hearing person...understandable, but sad nevertheless.

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 11:24

I did have to have a bit of a giggle when Paul's mum was in the car with Claires friend. Paul's mum was talking to the girl who was driving and lip reading at the same time, she obv missed a few bits of 'lip action' and she asked Paul's Mum to repeat herself. Paul's Mum did this quite happily but her responses got louder and LOUDER ! Lol. Same thing happened with Claire's gran when she was talking to Claire's Dad.

jolou1 · 15/09/2004 11:24

I thought it was a fascinating programme, but I felt uncomfortable that Paul was somehow using his son to dispell the demons of his own childhood....that he could somehow feel better about himself through his son. I felt incredibly sorry for his mother. Yes, she should have learned to sign, but I reckon there are deep reasons why she never did and the programme was edited against her. I thought it terribly sad she was so excluded from the rest of the family. There was almost a militancy about Claire's family which appeared quite intimidating for "outsiders".

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 11:25

It was BBC2, sophable

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 11:27

jolou 1, I think that Claire's Mum was a little 'militant', a lot of that probably comes from being a BSL teacher and seemingly quite a prominent 'voice' of the local deaf community.

Original poster

beachyhead · 15/09/2004 11:27

are there any other deaf mums on MN? I saw your post coppertop, and it just seems that this site would be a great resource for deaf mums (as well as as hearing mums, obviously). I think the deaf community is quite insular but I am sure that it is the hearing community that has made it so. I'm always quite jealous when I see deaf people signing to each other because their faces are so animated and they have to look at each other, instead of the rest of us who grumpily mumble while looking at the ground!!!!

OP posts:

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 11:28

I guess you have a tendency to be a little 'gung-ho' if you feel like you have to fight to be heard.

Heathcliffscathy · 15/09/2004 11:28

i agree with your post joulou. but don't you think it's understandable: i always think that if people are kicked and kicked and kicked again they will kick back hard???

Heathcliffscathy · 15/09/2004 11:29

crossed posts ndp!

Heathcliffscathy · 15/09/2004 11:30

most moving bit for me was singing of the hymn all things bright and beautiful in sign (and i'm not big on organised religion)...compared to the droning with no eye contact that is usual hymn singing it was so animated as if they were singing/signing it to each other and really meant it!!! i loved that bit

Aero · 15/09/2004 11:33

Wish I'd seen this one! My brother's wife's sister is deaf as is her husband. She both lip-reads and signs (none of her family sign!) and he only signs. Several years ago before any of our little lot were born, I went to night school to learn BSL. It was just brilliant and fascinating, and not difficult to learn the basics. I was able to put it into practise at my brother's wedding, where there were lots of deaf friends around, and it was just lovely to get to know people a bit and people are more tham willing to help with communication esp. if they can see you trying! I'd need a refresher course now though as I don't see these folk often (distance etc), and haven't had the opportunity to practise, but I'd happily go back and learn some more. The happy ending for them is that after many years of trying and lots of problems along the way and both around 40ish they finally had a little boy just over a year ago and were delighted to find out that he is a hearing child.

Blu · 15/09/2004 11:34

I thought that though Paul seemed to actively want the baby to be deaf - because of issues to do wiht his own very lonely childhood, Claire was more open - and did recognise and acknowledge that her child would not 'get the best' of things because he was deaf, and would have been equally happy had the baby been hearing.

I can understand them reacting badly to any family member reacting with any negative impulse at all- they are deaf, and you don't want any negative reaction to your timny baby. yes, we know it can be hard, sad and challenging to deal with disability / difference but parents need to deal with that as it occurs, in their own time. Even with DS's mild mobility difficulites, I find it a hard juggling act between being positive, brooking no compromise in loving him for who he is, and having to admit that sometimes it is bloody hard.

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