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Telly addicts

Deaf couple having a baby - made me cry?

45 replies

beachyhead · 15/09/2004 09:47

I loved that documentary last night at 9pm when the deaf couple were waiting for their baby to see if he would be hearing or not. Just the whole life they lead and the constant smiles on their faces was a real pick me up. I'm sure MN would be a huge resource to deaf mums and mtbe. Did anyone else see it?

OP posts:
NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 11:34

That was one bit that really stood out for me too, soph

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 11:39

I agree with your first para, Blu. Claire did seem to be 'going along' with Paul's vehement desire for a deaf child. I too got the feeling that she would have been equally happy (if not happier) if their son had been hearing. That impression was further reinforced when they were interviewed outside the audiologist's room, post dx.

jolou1 · 15/09/2004 11:45

I can see that Paul finally found a way to kick back at the system that failed him, but I wonder if delighting in his child's deafness is necessarily the way to lay his ghosts to rest?
That aside, rarely does a programme give such an insight into living with deafness...you could almost feel the frustration of the pair of them when they went to hospital the first time. Must have been infuriating.

NomDePlume · 15/09/2004 11:50

Agreed jolou

geekgrrl · 15/09/2004 14:34

I really tried to see this from the parents' point of view but just cannot get my head around them hoping that their little boy would be deaf. It's such an utterly selfish attitude, I am sure a hearing child of deaf parents would be just as much a part of the family as a deaf one (and wouldn't struggle with everyday things like a deaf child will). After all, BSL will still be the child's first language, hearing or not.
And they seemed surprised at Paul's mum feeling sad about the baby being deaf - well honestly, what did they expect?
My daughter has moderate hearing loss and I would give anything for her to have normal hearing. Whatever people say, I can't see how being deaf is not a disability - yes you can drive but you can't hear that an ambulance is about to come round the corner, you can't hear someone beeping their horn at you.. the list goes on and on really. I'm all for being positive about disability, but to wish it on your own child is just too much.

Tortington · 15/09/2004 14:37

there is a definate deaf culture and community that if you are not part of you cannot understand. both parents being deaf they obviously live their lives within that culture. had their son been not deaf then he wouldnt have been part of that whole community and culture.

i was devestated when my daughter was diagnosed hearing impaired. then i live in a world where deafness is abnormal. they live in a world where hearing is abnormal

Heathcliffscathy · 15/09/2004 14:38

the most controversial thing surely is that they said that if their child were deaf they would not allow a cochlear implant...

Tortington · 15/09/2004 15:47

i think the same thing applies re cultural issues with a cocklear implant

Blu · 15/09/2004 16:00

As I understand it - and it may well be misunderstood - the idea is that cochlea implants are far from satisfactory and do not enable children to hear accurately, and therefore speak clearly, either. the child is then left 'imperfect' in a hearing world, rather than 'perfect' in a deaf world. I also understand (same disclainmer)that the whole linguistic education is different depending on whether it is aural (cochlea implant / lip-reading / speech lessons) or sign-based, and that children tend to lose out on one aspect if following the other. They happen in totally different schools. 'Aural' schools have traditionally discouraged children learning to sign (as the one Paul went to) because they then 'rely' on signing and do not get practice in the very difficult and tiring art of lip reading.

So in that context I can understand a reluctance to resist implants.

beansprout · 15/09/2004 16:43

As I understand it, in the Deaf community cochlear implants are seen as an attempt to turn a Deaf child into a hearing child, which of course, they are not. CIs do not restore full hearing, they are not a "cure" but they do provide some semblance of hearing. As such people in the Deaf community reject them.

aloha · 15/09/2004 16:47

I'm not sure that's true, Blu (!) - adults with cochlear implants - such as the famously ex-deaf MP Jack Ashley - said they could hear extremely well. My friend's little daughter was deafened by a virus in babyhood, but now she has a cochlear implant her speech has very nearly caught up with what it should be for her age.

renaldo · 15/09/2004 17:02

and the thing about cochlear implants is that the earlier they are implanted, the better the hearing improvement. Also you canchoose to turn off the implant ( by not wearing the reciever bit) so some deaf teenagers I've met "switch" back and forth between their hearing and deaf friends as it were quite happily

fabarooney · 15/09/2004 18:41

My parents are both profoundly deaf. My brother and I have normal hearing. My parents never wished for us to be deaf and were delighted to find out that we weren't. This came from their experience growing up that a disability, even one as manageable as deafness, is disadvantageous in our society.

When my parents were growing up, deaf schools concentrated on trying to get deaf children to speak properly (almost impossible if you have no hearing) and to lip read. Very little effort was made to develop academic aptitude. My mother was told it was pointless for deaf children to do 'O' levels, despite being an incredibly intelligent woman and that her dreams of working in a bank were impossible. My dad has a similar story to tell.

When they were growing up, people still imagined deafness to be associated with sub-normal intelligence. TBH, I think many people still do think this about people with disabilities, full-stop.

I share this with you to give you an insight into what Paul might be feeling. The world punishes people for not being perfect. Even his own mother, in his eyes, refused to accept him for what he was and still cannot communicate with him in the way he prefers. I think Paul may have wanted his child to be deaf so that it would be a part of his, accepting world, and not the world that he grew up in.

My mum and dad took the opposite view. Their ambitions were stifled because of their disability and they wanted more from life for my brother and I. We grew up using BSL at home - I learned to sign before I could talk.

Don't be too hard on Paul's mum. She was given advice by the professionals in the field at the time. My dad's parents were told exactly the same. She wanted to do the best for her son and she was told that encouraging him to sign would not be the best thing. It's not her fault.

Jimjams · 15/09/2004 19:47

Thought it was great- and summed up the strength of deaf culture. tbh the thingI found hardest to understand was why paul's mum hadn't learned any sign. she clearly loved him and was proud of him. I guess things were different then.

Lonelymum · 15/09/2004 19:55

Haven't got time to read the whole thread and hope I don't say anything offensive here, but I wanted to say I found the father's attitude to finding out his child was deaf rather sad. I can understand they don't feel deafness is a disability and wouldn't be sad to find out their child is deaf, but he seemed to positively welcome the fact. At least the mother said she felt guilty at not being sad for the child because every mother wants the best for their child and she realised her child would not get the best in life because he was deaf.
Having said that, I couldn't believe that his own mother hadn't learnt sign language becuase she was told not to by the school he attended. She has had years to make up for her mistake but she hasn't done a thing! His lip reading wasn't that perfect and it made me wonder how he had communicated with his family all his life. Do you suppose there were other family members who had learnt sign language? How did she communicate with her son when he was little? I can't imagine what sort of life that family had!

Jimjams · 15/09/2004 20:37

I can't communciate easily with ds1 - it is very frustrating for both of us, but you can still have a loving and very close relationship. That's why I find it weird that she didn't learn sign- there was a way to communicate. I try anything that will help communication with ds1. Mind you it is very difficult to do without support and took me years to set up a suuitable system- could have been done 2 years ago, but I was floundering a bit- I'm perhaps more surprised its taken her until now to start- even if she didn't do it earlier.

Blu · 15/09/2004 20:43

She must have ahd serious 'issues' with it to have lived with he son and spent time with Claire and not have pickedup even one basic communication sign, simply by osmosis. And in that way i did feel terribly sorry for her. An over-used word, but she seemed comepletely disempowered to me.

Jimjams · 15/09/2004 23:21

I came in late so missed the bit about the school telling her not to sign. I have some real sympathy with the effect that can have- the informatiion you are given by professionals in the early days can be very damaging. When ds1 was dxed (and pre dx) we were given lots of very negative (and now I know misleading and inaccurate) information about ABA. To the point where I didn't even really look at it until recently. We've been doing it for 6 months now and I wish wish wish I had started it when ds1 was 2. Part time at 5 is too late to get the real benefit. And the only reason I came across it and got accurate info was because of the internet. Paul's mother must have been very isolated- and the other parents would have been told the same thing.

Even putting in place something I wanted to do right from the beginning (PECS) was almost impossible alone. In the end it dawned on me that dh and I were going to have to send ourseleves on a course as no-one else was going to set it up for us. To learn sign would have been very difficult. I guess.

cab · 16/09/2004 01:11

Must adnit I felt devastated for Paul and his family - for him as a boy forced to lip read but with no one to listen to him. And now for his poor mum who has been portrayed to be an absolute failure despite being a very loving mother.
How must she have felt watching that programme. It's awful that that family have always lived with one of them on the outside. First Paul and now his mum. (Where was his dad by the way?) How brave was it to go on that hen weekend! (And daft to rabbit away like a budgie in the car). Her isolation on the weekend was almost shocking, certainly made one think how shockingly isolating it must be for the deaf in a hearing world.
Felt the baby's mum wanted a hearing baby, but was perhaps relieved because family life would be simpler with a hearing-impaired child.
Great programme - shame about the hatchet job on Paul's mum.

Mog · 18/09/2004 11:34

I thought this was a wonderful programme, but thought they were trying to portray Paul's mum in too bad a light. When she arrived at the house to see the grandchild for the first time the embrace she gave Paul was such a mutually loving one I felt they had a really good relationship. And Paul himself seemed a really loving man, especially when he was talking about Claire that I think the mum must have really done a good job raising him.
So nice to see an uplifting programme on telly. Also very interested (as am about to go through labour myself) how little noise Claire made in labour, although all the pain seemed to be there from the look on her face.

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