A very English scandal

[Cistersaredoingitforthemselves]

Looking forward to seeing this

I have read the book and it was excellent.

I remember this happening and it being one of the earliest political scandals I was aware of ( and actually understood) - Watergate was my first but I was only small and didn't understand

Peter Bessell - the owner of a face like a badly tessellated pavement

Probably the best caption of a photo ever

As I remember from reading the book, Norman Scott had two children, with different women. Don't know if he is in touch with them.

I read that Peter Bessell arranged an Emergency NI card for NS when he was married and NS's wife was having trouble getting maternity benefits and they were pretty destitute. His wife went into town to collect the benefits and buy food etc but came back with a dress and peacock feathers etc(as shown in the drama). I think the fact NS changed his name a few times caused NI issues. Even if you lost your card (they melted in the wash as I recall if left in your trousers) you just needed your number and if you hadn't a note of it you could phone up HMRC and they could tell you it (if you knew your birth certificate details). NS was prosecuted in 1976 for minor benefit fraud (and claimed in court he was being hounded by JT).

Decent article in the independent :
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jeremy-thorpe-very-english-scandal-bbc-liberal-leader-mp-gay-sex-murder-trial-dog-great-dane-a8345426.html

brilliant drama. One thing DH and I can't work out is why Thorpe's friends other than Bessell went along with the crazy hit man plot? I've never understood that about conspiracies - if someone asked me to bump off someone, even if it was a dear friend, I'd laugh them out the door. They never talked, either, did they, Le Mesurier and the carpet guy? I want to know why they couldn't persuade Thorpe to keep paying off Scott and leave it there.

Scott did relentlessly hound and scam Thorpe for years, I watched the documentary and up until the point Thorpe decides to kill Scott, I felt Scott behaved appallingly.

Thorpe's second wife clearly loved him dearly, I hope she knew what she was getting into - she doesn't seem to have from the TV drama, but as an insider in that group, surely someone would've tipped her off?

I don't think the drama was terribly flattering to Scott - the documentary was little more than clips shoved together - bessell alleged that Thorpe was privileged to have been protected from prosecution for being homosexual, but in the early 60s howmany people did the police prosecute for this? There were no stats to back up or otherwise the veracity of that statement.

Bessell was rightly destroyed by Carmen for being totally self serving.

Carmon never destroyed anyone rightly, Carmon was a horrible man.

I don’t think Bessell was self-serving. At worst he was naive for doing that specific deal with the Telegraph - it should have been a flat fee, whatever the verdict.

Images here from a DM piece - Bessell’s son is bound to defend him, of course, but the bit about the Sunday Times article in 1976 saying it was all Bessell's doing makes his decision to testify against Thorpe entirely justifiable IMO!

Carman was a clever bastard, but he really was a bastard

& Thorpe’s triumphal performance after the verdict was disgraceful

It certainly appeared (from the program) that Thorpe was guilty. I’ve yet to see the documentary.whether guilty or not of conspiracy, Thorpe is guilty of seducing a clearly fragile young man.

Thorpe's second wife had a pretty interesting life. She was a Jewish concert pianist and had previously been married to an Earl! She had three sons in her first marriage who have also had pretty interesting lives.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Stein

it does look as though Thorpe was guilty of conspiracy to murder - but, the evidence against him is still not that legally convincing - the motive is proven, the homosexual relationship, but in terms of evidence that he gave the orders, there isn't much firm evidence on that without le mesurier or david holmes talking.

I still reckon it'd be a tricky conviction to get these days, Bessell did make that deal which earned him more if Thorpe was guilty, and he didn't blow the whistle, those points would never play well.

That Sunday Times article implies that Bessell only got involved when it became a case of him or me - again, as a witness, that's not ideal stuff.

Legal standards being higher than tv etc.

the barrister helped by not putting Thorpe on the stand.

if he had of done, maybe it might have gone differently? who knows!

Bessell selling his soul pre trial also helped his cause.

a really messed up and fasinating case all round.

I didn't think that NS's wife was Terry-Thomas's SIL?

On the back of this and other recommendations have started London Spy - big Ben Wishaw fan, however I wonder if he feels typecast to play a gay.
He is a totally fantastic actor though.

Assume "a gay" is a typo but yes it is a bit of a reprise of London Spy. Which was also excellent, by the way. Having seen him play Richard II on telly he is clearly a fine actor and a really hope he doesn't do "damaged young gay man" too much.

Apparently that was true diddl although there don't seem to be any more details than that. I don't know if NS and TT ever met though. Just one more bizarre element of a bizarre story!

Ben Wishaw is very watchable, but I don't think he's got much range as an actor, he's pretty much the same in everything I've seen him in.

He was also in Brideshead revisited.

Agree, amazing in The Hollow Crown

"Apparently that was true diddl "

I thought that I'd read somewhere that it wasn't true, but can't for the life of me find it now.

Although it does seem an odd thing to make up-you'd think that it would have been disputed, wouldn't you?

TT's 2nd wife was a Belinda Cunningham & NS's wife a Sue Myers.

So one had been married before?

Detective Diddl!

Belinda Cunningham was an actress so perhaps changed her name?

Googling Terry-Thomas I discovered that Jimmy Tarbuck once did time for stealing TT's diamond-encrusted cigarette holder and that Richard Briers was TT's cousin - it's a right old rabbit hole!

Oh, wait-in the ep where Sue & Norman marry-does the father refer to his other daughter as Belinda?

Just found this (telegraph article)

Which says that TT was Norman's wife's sister's BIL??

I haven't read the whole thread (sorry!) but just want to say (or repeat? Someone might have said) that you must watch the Panorama programme that was made to be aired after Thorpe was found guilty. Then he was found innocent so it was put in the archives till now. Fascinating stuff and they have current interviews with Norman.

One particular observation... the casting for the Drama was spot on. All the characters looked so much like the originals!

There's only 26 days left on BBC iPlayer for this.

Apologies, I can see now it's been mentioned

I think this has been of such interest to old 'uns like me because I just remember it all first time round. I remember so much the 'bunnies' reporting, the whole country was shocked!

The panorama interviews ( i have only seen half so far ) was very staid compared to today;s overblown hyped up style of reporting. much more factual, with straight forwards interviews, nobody chasing people around with a microphone and all very British and stiff upper lip.
I thought it was very telling when his second wife said ' they are concentrating on the bunnies word, but all i saw was the ' i miss you' line as it showed you cared about him'. oddly touching in a warped way considering he wanted him to be to be killed by a hit man.