Indian Summer School.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I was watching this last night. I thought it was very good. The boys from The Doon School behaved very well, they were so polite and had a good work ethic, in relation to the boys from the UK, who seemed to think they can do what they want, and disrespect their elders. They will be in for a shock, when they go into the big wide world.

I really felt for Jack and am least heartened by the fact that he's recently said it was the best five months of his life due to the whole experience

www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/channel-4-indian-summer-school-1408194

noble You asked which school teaches English for 5-6 hrs a week then you say your school teaches it for 4. I call that splitting hairs; it's one hour difference!

In any case, those 4, 5 or 6 hours are not spent on basic literacy skills like phonics, reading and comprehension- far from it. That goes out the window from year 7 (apart from comprehension.) For most of the lessons, there is no focus on spelling, reading skills etc.

What you ought to be getting upset over is the fact that Jack was failed by all his UK schools.

I taught for 40 years in state, indy, day and boarding schools, special schools for children with severe dyslexia and also adults in FE. What disturbed me was that almost ALL dyslexics in the state system were never diagnosed. if they were it was too late, or when their parents coughed up £500 for a private psych's assessment.

Laying the blame at the Doon school who had Jack for 6 months (and no, they don't teach him for 24 hours a day so that comment is plain daft) is wrong.

You have no idea of dyslexia and how it's not possible to close a huge gap in 6 months. My bet is Jack's reading and comprehension ages were very low. English IGCSE is not a doddle; many non-dyslexics struggle to get a C.

Considering he was disengaged from lessons for so long at the Doon, they did well.

One hour difference per week is significant.

close a huge gap in 6 months

He got a D last time, didn’t he?

And no, they weren’t teaching him for 24 hours a day, obviously, but they had him for 24 hours a day which means they were in far more control of what he did with his time than schools where the kids go home and play sodding Fortnite till 2am then have an energy drink for breakfast.

Middleoftheroad, thank you for posting that link. I really did think Jack and Ethan had changed alot and it is nice to hear that he does feel he benefited.

When you look at the timeline Jack says they were actually there for 5 and a half months and he was ill during that time so it wasn't long to turn things around.

Jake has been on twitter responding to his haterz. He reckons that the programme-makers manipulated the editing to make him look like a dick and not show when he was working hard. I expect there was plenty of editing, we saw hardly anything of Alfie, for example, and whenever we saw Jack it was positive. But it’s hard to make someone who isn’t a dick at all look like one.

His twitter handle is @jakeisnaughty.

Peach, yes good to hear the time brought other benefits.

Noble, I wanted to see more of Alfie too. Found Jake frustrating, but was pleased to see him with the tutor/friend's mother in the follow-up.

I've just started watching Living with the Brainy Bunch on iplayer.

Two disengaged year 11 students move in with two top performing year 11s to see if the home environment will influence their attitude/results.

I don't think Doon school failed these pupils. I think as I said upthread it was never going to work plonking 5 underachieving (possibly with spld) boys in a highly academic pressurised environment. However, it would not have made good TV, even though cheaper, to show them being privately tutored for the exams for 6 months and then passing!

Well no, it won’t work to plonk boys who can’t read in a class with kids working at a much higher level and expect them to keep up, but one would hope that apparently one of the best schools in the world would know that and have planned for it. They are hardly short of resources. 1-1 tuition only seemed to kick in near the end when they got a bit panicked. From the start might have made a difference!

One hour difference per week is significant.

Only if that hour is being spent in a way that can help a dyslexic.

If the teaching is not focused on their personal needs , which is highly unlikely in a state school and in a large group, it's no use at all.

He failed his exam by ONE mark. We don't know his mark for his previous exam. He may have moved up from scraping a D to one mark off a C.

The focus on this boy ought to be why he had 14 years in full time school in the UK and was diagnosed late with dyslexia. His lack of confidence was a direct result of that.

As for the idea that he was in their care 24/ 7 yes, he was. So were the children I used to teach in a private boarding school. That didn't guarantee they could pass all exams.

I'd expect posters who say they teach to appreciate these things.

If the teaching is not focused on their personal needs

Exactly. Which is where the Doon School appeared to fall down.

Yes their previous state schools had failed them, but the Doon School is supposed to be amazing with fab teachers who should be on top of this.

No, I don’t know much about English, but I do know about maths. Those kids shouldn’t have gone backwards. And Harry was complaining about how the lessons were going straight over his head. Why wasn’t that tackled?

Ah, but that would be the mastery curriculum wouldn't it dear noble? This is the way they teach in Korea and Japan . Keep up or sink.

I was taken aback by their results, too.

To pick u on the English (I mustn't have been concentrating at one point because I did not hear that jack was dyslexic), the amazement to me was that Harry got a U. Drifter as he might have been, he was clearly an articulate and reasonably sharp lad and he got a U in English (I am assuming iGCSE which btw you can sit in October). A U in English is almost impossible to get...and there was no sense thye were sitting gazing into space in the exam.

And, by the way, 4 hours per week would be a generous English allocation. We have 5 a FORTNIGHT.

The expression about silk purses out of sow's ears springs to mind with the boys. But I think they developed emotionally at least.

No, I don’t know much about English, but I do know about maths. Those kids shouldn’t have gone backwards.

I could tell :) And I suspect you have not taught for 40 years either in various schools.

English is not a linear subject, like maths. It's more of a jigsaw where you learn bit by bit and eventually all the pieces come together. A child builds their vocabulary and grammar/ syntax from the day they start to speak . In households where parents aren't passing on good language skills, where there are no books, no meaningful debates or conversations, their child is always going to be disadvantaged, and worse if they have a specific learning difficulty. You can't make up years and years of poor vocab in 6 months, even if you can teach the technical stuff like punctuation and how to use paragraphs.

When I taught in an indy school, I had parents telling me they were paying all this money so little Jack HAD to pass ...

It doesn't work like that.

the amazement to me was that Harry got a U.

piggy Harry couldn’t read. It’s why he was on the phone to his mum complaining that he was going to lessons and trying but it was all over his head. I think it said on the show that he got a G in English originally. I don’t understand why the school wasn’t helping him with his reading and basically leaving him to flounder in lessons.

loves your comment was a bit patronising, I accepted I didn’t know about English, but like I said I do know about maths so perhaps you should accept what I say about how those boys should not have gone backwards in maths at least and that perhaps the Doon School should have gone about things differently.

I didn't see all the programmes so maybe missed a bit. I wonder if the boys were sent there more for the way the children were meant to behave and respect the teachers etc.
If a child can't read at the end of secondary school I can't see how he was going to be able to read after 6 months in another school unless he was in a special class all the time or had many hours of additional tutoring, neither of which happened.

If the boys who were sent there were academically able but had just mucked about in classes/exams in the UK then I think the Doon school might have made a difference as they were going in on a level playing field, but this wasn't the case for at least some of the boys.

I'm a teacher. I honestly thought they weren't going to let the boys fail to make the school look good, expected a lot of 'English education is failing us' and teacher bashing which is common in TV these days (think the BBC programmes about teaching British kids Chinese style - can't remember the name!)
By the end, my heart hurt for Jack and Ethan. The new GCSEs are so difficult and so knowledge-dense that they are much more reflective of kids ability. A C is supposed to be the average grade on an 8 point marking system - not everyone can be average! It's not how averages work!
I also thought the clear lack of differentiation was interesting. The British boys were plunked into high level classes and expected to catch up. Maybe they did a little, and we certainly didnt see it all but it's part of the reason why I eyeroll so hard at praising 'old style' chalk and talk teaching - it's not suitable for all!
Also Jake can try to defend himself all he wants, he was a disrespectful moron, the alcohol situation made my blood boil, the walking in late 'I needed a poo' - such arrogance! and the bullying of Jack just showed he's a nasty piece of work. His mother cracked me up when she said she'd never disciplined him. That was pretty bloody obvious!

They didn’t sit the new GCSEs, they sat IGCSEs and were marked on the old letter grades.

If they’d sold the programme to the boys as ‘you’re going to be sent to India where you’ll not only be culturally out of your depth, but also we’ll put you in classes where you won’t understand what’s going on and you’ll get the same results or worse at the end as when you got there’ whether they’d have signed up. Not really surprising that only two made it to the end, and Harry, at least, realised he’d been sold a lemon.

Harry couldn't read? When was that said noble ? I quite liked Harry.

I obviously wasn't paying attention...

I found the programme strangely reassuring. It would have annoyed me if some fancy school, with 6 months, had been able to sort out a lifetime of problems :and I agree with you holiday : not everyone can get a C and this is the problem with the way we view education.

The programme would actually have been more interesting if they had found some boys (and I have taught many) who should have got Cs but just didn't for a range of factors. Clearly, most of the lads on the programme were never capable of getting anywhere near. And I don't buy that Alfie was working class, either!

I did like the head , though. He seemed a genuinely nice man : unlike some of those egotists on the Educating programmes.

Just watched the last one. I felt for Jack, really wanted for him to have nudged that C. I really hope he gets support to help him, makes me wonder if his dyslexia had been picked up earlier whether he'd have got better grades earlier on. His mum was so encouraging.

I didn't realise Harry couldn't read, that passed me by too.

I wondered what had happened with Jake's mum for him to have moved out to a friend's, and then his own flat (and how was he funding that, Brighton is not cheap!).

I did think it was interesting that Jake's dad died when he was young : that must have been quite a formative experience . Probably never got a lot of counselling for that as it was a while ago. And he did seem the most inherently bright of all the boys.

The children I have taught who have suffered early bereavements have often been deeply affected (especially boys) so we should probably at least offer Jake a bit of slack. His ridiculous 'I needed a poo' comment was juvenile attention seeking at its finest and yet he was the oldest. It makes me feel a bit sad for him in many ways.

I've just started watching Living with the Brainy Bunch on iplayer. Middleoftheroad, thanks for mentioning that, I watched it last night. It was interesting but I did feel exasperated with Hollie and I felt the teacher's were too understanding but then I'm not a teacher so I don't know how the harder old school approach would work.

I'm not sure if the Head will endear himself to parents struggling with difficult teenagers with his comments about it all being about failings at home. Well almost all being about home.

They never said that Harry couldn’t read, piggy but that was the impression that I got and it made sense. I think they said in the second episode that he got a G in English which would have made most other subjects inaccessible to him (he got a D in maths). In the first episode when the English teacher was going over the results of an English assessment the boys did, she talked about Jake, Ethan, and Jack’s assessment, but she did not mention Harry (or Alfie, to be fair, but he got a D in English). They spent a lot of time talking to Jack in his English lessons, but when Harry was on screen, he seemed to be looking at texts with panic and lack of comprehension on his face. His complaints to his mum on the phone were that he didn’t understand anything in the lessons and he wasn’t learning anything. I don’t think they showed the teachers working with him?
I liked Harry, when he realised that he was following exactly the same path as he did in England, in arsing about with his mates instead of cracking on, it was a brilliant moment of insight. His willingness to explore his spirituality was refreshing. Obviously he had huge issues with anger, and when you saw him on the phone talking to his mum when he was shaking with anger, it was about how he didn’t understand the lessons and he was so frustrated. Then he beat up Jack, and Jack said afterwards that Harry said he wanted to start a fight so that he would get thrown out.
Harry, as a direct result of being unable to access the curriculum and seeing that he was going to fail again like he did in England got angry and tried to get himself thrown out of school. I suspect this was a pattern of behaviour that he had followed in school for some time.
He then spent a lot of time working with the Sikh lad on meditation and so on. He still couldn’t access the curriculum but this time decided to leave instead which, for me, felt like major progress for Harry.

I swear I put some paragraph breaks in that block of text!

At least the 5 boys may have a different attitude when bringing up thier own children. That’s the trouble with this country, we have generations of illiterate families. It all starts at home, parental support where ethnic families have a grip on this and therefore lead in medicine, engineering etc. Need to stop blaming this country’s education system, the kids here are damn lucky just lack of respect and discipline it’s outrageous

I wonder whether the fact that Jake's dad dying when Jake was 5 influenced the way his mum brought him up, as she said she never disciplined him? Think in the first episode she mentioned that his dad had died and I seem to remember she or maybe Jake said something along the lines that is why he didn't do well at school and why he behaves as he does. I wonder whether that was partly a self fulfilling prophecy. I am not saying a bereavement at that age isn't going to impact him but whether it was always used as an excuse.

noble Harry's moment of insight is what I thought the programme makers were hoping that all the boys would have. I don't know if it was Harry who came from the family who didn't seem to have any qualifications so it was probably seen as the norm, must be a hard cycle to break. As a maths teacher you must see it all the time when parents say "I couldn't do/hated maths as a child" and it seems to be a badge of honour

I just went and looked on All-4 at the bit where Harry phones his mum and is so angry, just before he beats up Jack. He’s talking about maths and says ‘I don’t understand it, in college I was on the verge of getting a C and now I feel like I’m going to get an F’. So we see Jack all happy about getting a smiley face on his English work that has never happened before and think ‘gosh, how lovely that Jack finally has teachers who encourage him’, while glossing over the fact that Harry is being made to feel shit about his maths ability to the point where he punches another student to try to get thrown out and eventually quits the programme.
And the headmaster just shakes his head sadly and wishes that the boys had worked harder and engaged more.