Generation Gifted BBC2

[Buxbaum]

Surprised that there isn’t a thread already - unless I’ve missed one?

Anyone watching?

I found the whole thing quite depressing. The one teacher when talking to the girl who wanted to go to the grammar school was telling her how he felt so different to everyone else when he went. Thats not helpful.
Also the boy who was really good at science was being advised to go towards medicine. There are a million other careers in science. It was really worrying that he just wanted to be a chef and had no idea where his science could take him.
I know they were all bright but I worry that when they find themselves in an academic environment with others who are just as bright or brighter they might not be able to cope.

Yes I watched this. I also thought it was weird they were given GCSE papers when so young -surely the bad marks would just make them feel shit?

Yes the scene with the father was very uncomfortable I thought.

And yes I really thought it was weird how that teacher was saying how he felt out of place in a grammar school! I mean he was discouraging her i thought the whole idea was to encourage her, and surely he should be encouraging her! I thought that was very strange really.

I have twins in Y9. Watching this, I was frustrated that these young people and their parents did not seem to have access to accurate information about higher education and careers.

For example, Anne Marie's mum was talking about university tuition fees, and asking her daughter to think about how she would manage to pay them back herself, especially if she didn't find a job straight away. I got the impression that neither of them understood that Anne Marie won't be required to pay anything until she's earning over £21K, and even then it would only be a small percentage of any income above that threshold.

I've just remembered that the threshold for student loan repayments is going up to £25K, but the same principle applies.

I have just finished watching the second episode.
The part were Kian's dad was berating him for his marks in GCSE papers was heartbreaking. I really feel that the school should have informed parents to explain that students would in no way be expected to achieve top grades two years before they sit the their real exam. The dad did not seem to understand this at all. The immense pressure that this was causing Liam who was already his own worse critic could potentially be so damaging.

Jamarley was a lovely lad who seemed to adore music as a hobby but was finding it tough to give the academic side of it his full attention while juggling his other subjects. He seemed a great all rounder with a wonderfully supportive mum.

Liam was so lovely with his younger brother and I hope he discovers how pursuing science in higher education can offer many opportunities. Although medicine shouldent be mooted as the only option I thought his teacher was wonderfully supportive.

It was awful to see Ann-Marie look so dejected when discussing university fees with her mother. Hopefully the school will help set the record straight and explain how student finance works before she gives up on university as an option available to her.

It was good to see Jada setting a goal for herself academically and wrong of her teacher to project his own negative experience on to her. I know Grammar education is a decisive subject but to a 13 year old girl who was using it as motivation to achieve academically I think it was such a waste not to not harness the ambition and run with it presently. I was also very that the misconception that all families of grammar students are wealthy and drove Range Rovers was not put right.

I was so pleased that Shakira had the confidence to sing at the end - it was fab to see how good she felt afterwards. It did seem that her mums boyfriend seemed to be putting the tattoo artist idea in her head especially when he commented how loads of artists are doing nothing so what else was there to do.

lazymum, I felt the same. I had read on mumsnet that some state school teachers say to pupils Oxbridge is not for the likes of you and always thought I bet that never happens! Yet there we were being told almost exactly the same thing - he was saying to an ambitiuos girl of colour that he someone of mixed race from a poor area found grammar school hard to fit into and it might not be for her! I don't think he put her off because her mother and she are both ambitious for her but it was an unhelpful comment even if he felt it ruined his life that he went there (and clearly it did not as it got him a good education and into teaching - he seemed a very teacher).

TheSecond, I thought exactly that. University would not cost that family a penny as almost for the first time in our history there is not a single upfront fee to pay. If she needs to travel to one then there would be the cost of her bus but she could save that up through a sixth form part time job. Also even their google search did not get them the results the rest of us would have found - loans for the fees and they did not take account of rent but again you can get a loan. And as you say you pay nothing at all ever unless you earn over the threshold and then it is just 9% off your salary.

I did think it was nicely done and a good programme however. It is a bit like the 7Up series I have watched since the 1960s which is still going on (and is on youtube and worth watching). Those children are now may age and most still happy to be filmed every 7 years.

Yes, Jamarley was struggling to get his GCSE music composition in on time although I doubt his GCSE music is the most crucial of his GCSEs - his English, maths etc will be likely to count for more. They only show us bits of their lives so I suppose there will be some picking and choosing to make things good TV.

I did think the bright maths boy has lovely supportive parents which helps no end and I don't understand why if my teenage son could get his teeth fixed for no charge at all with our NHS dentist and orthodontist that cannot be done for him - not that looks are that important but I do think it would be worth his parents getting that done for him as it would not cost a penny and I would be more than happy that my taxes go on fixing his teeth which are much worse than those of my son. (My son's are now perfect).

I found it quite depressing tbh. Especially Kian with his dad - that made me shout at the TV. I watched with DS who’s Y9 and DD Y6. DS is already at a Grammar and DD is going up in September - it was a great programme for them to watch; highlighting how bloody lucky they are to have the opportunities they do. No wonder social mobility is on the decline if you have people like that teacher essentially saying grammar is “not for the likes of us”

I wondered the same about Kian being given a GCSE paper in Y9. However, DH is a Head of English and he said the paper given was a specimen/trial paper for the new 1-9 exam aimed at Y9s.

The problem with these specimen papers, as we know through our own DD experience, is that the exam boards set them so hard. DD is an excellent mathematician but could only do 40% of the specimen paper. A family friend who was on a gap year with A* in A level Maths and FM, struggled with some questions and could only solve them using his A level knowledge.

Luckily, the real exams were pitched at the correct level. DD got a 9, but the unnecessary stress those specimen papers caused was shocking. Poor Kian. Dad should have asked how everyone else did to get an idea of the difficulty. But dad's reaction probably went on in thousands of households around the UK, no wonder kids are feeling under pressure.

DDs school have just given their yr 9s mock gcses too. My friends dd has also had them at her school over the last month. It seems to be a common thing here to get an idea of how far the students need to go to gain their predicted grades. Its crap though that schools are doing these gcse papers and sending children home with their results without any explanation to the parents.

(Although to be fair to the teacher he was generally encouraging and once she said she was very keen on the grammar he did not stop her considering it.

I also liked the teacher from my original area who was encouraging the boy away from catering. I think the boy would make a good doctor - he seems very bright and a nice personality so far.

You know what amazed me - how wonderful, new and clean the schools are! I am not sure my children's schools have been up to those standards. We must have spent a fair bit on those buildings. May b e we would be better with much worse buildings, more over crowding but much higher teachers' pay?

The teacher who did non academic A levels and now teachers a subject he does not even have an A level in was not a great endorsement for some schools of that kind although that does not mean he isn't a good teacher. In some schools you need a degree in never mind an A level in the GCSE subject you teach.

Interesting that many people are critical of Jada's teacher. I thought it was good that he was realistic about potential structural barriers in place and I agree that ambition alone won't allow her to do well. Although she's still a step ahead of some of the others.

My local college sent its first student to Oxbridge last year and I heard she dropped out as she found the culture too different. It's much easier if you go to private school, or grammar school, or an outstanding leafy comp.

The barriers are there, I wish there weren't but it's not as simple as not talking about them and hoping they go away.

Yes, it depends how you talk about them I suppose. I think the teacher was very encouraging and good teacher - it was just that one comment that seemed a bit offputting for me. My parents went to a state grammar in a very poor area at 11+ and they fitted in okay. there has always been an issue however that if you change and move then you will be different from your family and not everyone wants that so I suppose they could talk about that.

We somehow need to help these children not only fee confidence but also learn how to be criticised, failetc etc and stil get up and carry on which I sometimes think is the biggest thing my children have (and me - I've failed a lot but somehow I just get up brush it off and carry on). Nor must any of them think if you want something you get it. Often you don't and even if you do want it a lot and bad luck does not get in the way heaps of work is needed. My son is musical (and I was thinking of him when watching the boy doing the music GCSE). He did hours of practice some on every single day over in at least 2 instruments year after year to get several grade 8 music exams or equivalent skills. You don't just click your finger and want it with something like music skills or dance - you do the work as indeed plenty of these children are doing.

I kind of agree about Jada’s teacher - I think he just wanted to make her aware and he wasn’t surprised at all when she looked just as determined. Also we only see an edited version of the interview. He was talking about his own experience but I don’t think he projected it too much.
For those worried about the GCSE papers, I agree with pp that they were specimen ones from the exam board aimed at Y9s and they are difficult. Liam did really, really well.

I just watched both episodes, and thought it was a really interesting show. There was definitely a pattern in the family, with disability, absent fathers etc affecting their children's lives. I think for some of the pupils, there was definitely an aspect of a lack of aspiration, but if no-one in your family has ever been to university, then the system does seem costly and off-putting. I thought all the parents were trying their best, but some didn't really know how to support their children.

My favourite part was when Kian got his grade back for his university project- you could see the instant change in his confidence.

LL, I loved that too. he was so proud to get that grade. It will be interesting to see over the years how the family has an influence. Eg some seem more clued up than others about jobs and careers. It is particularly interesting for me as we come from a family in the NE who came out of poverty and how do some people manage it and others get left behind is always the interesting issue.

The children and their families are very kind to let us all look into their lives. The 7 Up chidlren from the 60s who are still filmed do say it affected their lives to some extent and some did drop out of the programme over the decades. On that programme they contrasted some rich and poor - the boarding school boy who became a barrister etc . Even then he says he was portrayed as rich but I think escaped from abroad and had full scholarships which the programme did not show in the 60s although his help with Romanian charities in his later life is shown. these things are fascinating . We all learn so much from looking at others rather that sticking in our own little bubbles.

I don't know how those GCSE papers worked but if they are practice papers aimed at Y9 then surely a gifted pupil should have scored more than 28/80 or whatever.
I have to also admit to thinking why don't they at least try and get his teeth fixed.
It really brought home to me what a struggle social mobility can be when they were discussing the cost of university and how the mother would not be able to help her pay it back. Like it was going to be a loan of £1000 or something not the actual £40,000 or whatever.

Yes, but 1. if I were the teacher I would have by all means let them have a go in a lesson at a GCSE paper but made the end of year school exams a proper maths exam based on what they had all been working on. 2. I am not sure hose children are gifted in the sense most of us think really. The one supposedly good at music is not up to much. The art girl is no better than someone at most schools who can draw a bit. The maths boy I just can't say yet - he does see quite good at maths. The science boy I suspect may just be middle of the road at any grammar/streamed school but by all means encourage them all - if they can find something they are quite good at great. I am not sure it does a lot of good to suggest they are genuis at things unless they are though as they will get an over inflated view of themselves and then come up against children with say 4 grade 8 music exams (like I had) or whatever and suddenly realised compared with people they are competing for with they are not as good as they thought. It is a difficult balance to get right.

lazy, the problem with univesrity costs if they did not realise it was totally free of any upfront charge at all! he schools should be shouting that from the roof tops - you probably won't ever penny back so take the chance and go for it. Even if they have to pay it back because they end up on £35k or something they just pay 9% of a wage which makes them heaps better off even than had they not got the good job.

ZBIsabella I was a bit worried about saying on here that I did not feel these kids were truly gifted. They certainly are bright and need a lot of encouragement to try and move them forward into a world that they and their family have no experience of. But as I said above thats what worries me about when they get to the grammar school or university. They are going to find they are pretty middle of the road.
Different backgrounds and opportunities I know but there were several kids at school with mine who excelled far more in music, art, maths or science and were virtually teaching themselves. Its sad though that the opportunities are not more equal.

I believe the "gifted" label means they are within the top 5% of their own school for a particular subject (or it can be identified from CAT tests). So definitely above average, but in a low performing school, I agree, they are not/may not be geniuses. Even in schools with a high proportion of FSM/PP students, you probably don't find that many students of this kind in the category.

I do think they are the type of students who should be able to get into a top 20 university/on to a competitive course if they fulfilled their potential (with the possible exception of Shakira as I'm not sure how academically able she was). I would think that if most of them came from a middle class home, they'd easily be able to aim for medicine/law/whatever they wanted.

However, given their backgrounds I think that if any of them achieve all 7/8/9 GCSEs, then it will be a real achievement for them, their families and their teachers.

I think at the age of 13 it's good to encourage them to aim high, and see a top university as the end goal, and then at sixth form it's where this needs to become more realistic/targeted (and this is where a lot of schools struggle as they're not careers/university applications specialists.

It's likely that these children, if they were to have the advantages of a middle class upbringing, would be much more than middle of the road grammar school children.

I'm going to check out the Up series - it sounds great.

Yes, it's all fascinating. I wish the children the best of luck.

Lots of teenagers lose focus on work in these teen years particularly if a lot of their peers aren't bothering so I hope they can keep working very hard.

My parents loved the 1964 "7 Up" very first one and I have watched it every 7 yeas ever since. Michael Apted was very junior when it was filmed with him assisting and has promised to go back to those children (now may age) every 7 years until he dies to keep filming.

I'm on episode 3 - I love it. Amazing to see how much and how little has changed.

Ashamed to say I laughed on finding out one private school kid ended up in Durham.

My daughter is a member of mensa, last year they asked all the children who were in year 9 if they would like to participate in this programme.

She was keen and emailed the production team, she had to write a bit about her family, parents jobs etc etc. She never had a reply.

Maybe the children are in Mensa, the test was organised by the school and then those that passed went onto join the ‘brilliant club’ (uni visits etc) as shown in the programme.

I’ve found it really interesting to watch.

R, I suppose they just have to select a few. I think they wanted some good at different things - art, music, maths, science. The first little girl who gets scared in exams seems very bright. The one who likes art doesn't to me but I might just be jumping to the wrong conclusion. The maths boy does. Not sure about the science one - possibly and the London music one not sure, possibly not and the girl who is very ambitious seems to be and certainly knows more than some of the others what you need to do to get on and what she is after.

The Jesuits said give me a child to the age of 7 and I will show you the man and indeed the Government thinks now that by age 3 ther eis already a massive differnce between chidlren in different homes simply in terms of how wide a vocabulary is spoken at home. Yet some people do fine out of very difficult circumstances and I find it really interesting to see where we all come from and why we end up where we do.