Celeb Big Brother Thread 11 - New product in the PWB shop! "Andrew's Guide to Treating Women with Respect"

[AnneEyhtMeyer]

I got them cheap. Ideal gift for Valentine's Day or Mother's Day.

Amanda will have been Shane j and Malika I can't see anyone else picking her apart from Shane L cause I have no idea what his thinking but I doubt it.

Shane J i think will get a lot Ann and Amanda with possibly Wayne, jess and Ashley too

I think Ann will be up Shane j and Malika will definitely pick her and possible Wayne.

The rest are hard to call who they will pick I can't see jess and Ashley voting for any girls so I think there will be another boy too but I might be wrong!

Well, I think some of you must live in very liberal areas, if you think someone of her age with her views is unusual. It might be vile in a twenty year old, maybe, who had known nothing else. I still believe people are entitled to hold their own opinions, particularly when they behave well to others despite their opinions. The change in acceptance in society over the last 20 years is radical. Redefining marriage, promoting homosexual relationships, abortion, all very shocking/illegal for half of her life.

Anyway. Enough. I've really enjoyed this BB, thanks to Ann, Shane J, Amanda and Jess. It's been fascinating, and the PWB banter has been great- I will never look at annighties and waynesleepers the same way. I'm also heartened to discover that more of us would join the oldies in bed at 9pm than would hang out with the ladz and their bantz. Bring on the wine and chocolate digestives. That's the way to live.

I don't 'get' Ann either, which I know is not popular opinion on this thread. Malika was correct when she said Ann wasn't evil, she's just 'miserable' . And she is. There's no fun or joy in anything for her. Is it her, or is it her staunch religious views, her upbringing, her being hardened by years in parliament etc etc ? Who knows. But I do know the constant eye rolling is really tedious and Shane J was correct to point that out. However, I do agree she adds a different dimension to the house.
I have gone off Amanda slightly with her Ann fan-girling and I'm not even a fan of Shane J at this stage after his Andrew obsession.
Bring back JB

Saw a clip of Amanda and Ann in the hot tub. So much better since the men went, the women are able to enjoy themselves.

Well the issue is whether continually voting against any legislation to give gay people more rights counts as behaving well to others despite your opinions.

While I don't think Wayne, Amanda or anyone else needs to be organised into getting angry about it, the fact remains that she has, for example, voted against legislation that gave same sex couples the opportunity to have the legal right to each other's unused IHT allowance. There would likely be bereaved same sex partners who had to sell the family home after their partner died, for lack of that exemption, who have been spared that suffering thanks to the civil partnership legislation that Ann chose to object to. This is not a small thing. And lest anyone think she simply voted against civil partnership, not even marriage but civil partnership, she also called for protests against that legislation. It's not her fault she failed miserably.

I don't think people of Ann's age holding those views is necessarily unusual, though the elderly women in my family (much older than her) are quite fond of camp types and drag queens. I did think it was odd that she'd assume Andrew's mum, a woman who could easily have been 20 years+ younger than her, would think as she did. Andrew is 27, so his mum could easily have been late 40s and I don't think from looking at her that she was more than early 50s. The women in my family who are that age would react with bemusement at the idea that they might be sufficiently bothered by their kid pissing around scissoring to need (clearly well meaning) intervention from Ann Widdecombe.

‘I do feel sorry in these situations because I know how wonderful it is to have these human connections with people and to have love and affection whether that be physical or emotional, and so often any time that we try and have those emotional moments…you react in such a confronting way.’ Shane J to Ann.

Bit of a low blow there from someone emotionally intelligent. He's implying Ann has no love in her life. She was very close to her late mother and now to her surviving brother and his family. Probably even moreso if those Boyzone tickets come through

‘I think Shane J does sometimes cross a line. No, I’m not looking forward to seeing Courtney. ‘I never look forward to seeing Courtney. Whereas Shane J in his normal moods is a nice young man.’ Ann in the Diary Room.

Shane in his normal moods? Wonder what she means by that? just when he's not in performance mode as Courtney, or maybe more to it than that? We don't even see the half of it and I'm getting fed up with being manipulated how to feel and assess them, especially when some housemates come out and have all kinds of other views. Maybe the nominations tonight will throw more light on that.

Defending Ann (at times) in the CBB house doesn't make me a fan. I certainly don't think anything about her presents as fluffy and I think most of us have condemned the majority of her parliamentary voting record. Some of us have tried to understand why she feels and believes as she does and to have a greater understanding of her as an individual despite her holding views we disagree with.

I really do believe that her eye rolling is a personal coping mechanism whereas it's most widely seen as being an obvious and annoying show of disapproval. I think she uses it in the same way as she often covers her face and last night blocked her ears. She will have been fully aware of what she was likely to encounter in the house, I'm sure like Shane J she's the type to do her homework, but I think anyone who goes into this kind of situation underestimates how hard they'll find it at times.

Anyway I've seen a couple of clips from tonight which I think we'll all enjoy and feel the mood lighten, so it should be a good show.

One thing Ann does seem to have brought to the house that is positive is that she seems to have kind of shielded the younger women a bit from the worst of the laddishness.

That was, I think, probably worse than we were shown, because of all the nominations about it and also it was incredibly telling that they were happy to go outside and sit in the hot tub once the boyzzzzz had been evicted, but not before. Makes me think that atmosphere was a bit more oppressive than we really saw in the edit.

Andrew in particular clearly thought he was going to shag one of the younger women in the house. And it's true that CBB has seen a lot of sexual activity. In Johnny's case, having sex on reality TV is literally all he's known for.

I can see how that might feel a bit intimidating to the younger women. I wonder if that could be, consciously or not, part of the reason why Ashley and Jess like her so much. She's kind of been protective. And at least part of the reason Andrew hated her so much is because she was cockblocking what he thought he was entitled to!

Agree entirely Pram
I'm not a spring chicken and am surrounded by a wide circle of older (and much older women) none would share Ann's views.

And I don't think it was a low blow Enrique.
It was absolute fact

I can't imagine Ann in the hot tub. Do you think she finagled a frog suit out of BB? I'm happy to let Craig, Wayne and Amanda decide if she's homophobic. She's definitely a prude, but I think that's allowed. Her once upon a time boyfriend said she is very sensitive to other people's pain, but uninterested in what people think of her. She certainly hates watching people being made to suffer deliberately.

I really hope Shane stops stirring, and goes back to being the insightful person he was. I like watching him as Courtney and working out what mannerisms he has adopted to be feminine. He opens his mouth much wider when he smiles, for example.

Shane's outlet, talking to others about Ann is surely only happening because she shuts him down when he attempts to talk to her.

He'll never change her views but I think they could find a medium ground of tolerance if she was less dismissive.

I'd love there to be another week and a few tasks to bring them together as without the awful lads bants environment I think they could all have a great time and a lot of fun. Widdecombe included!

Ah, that was great! Never say she hasn't got a sense of humour!

No getting away from Ann's views on modesty and correctness, but I think you're right in what you say Pram and I also think that with the younger people she's thinking ahead to what they might get out of the series and their future prospects. Ashley does some DJing, Jess some glamour modelling, but none of them seem to have actual careers to pursue and Daniel, with a young baby was very open about messing up the career he had.

I don't think it's inconceivable that she wanted to remind them that how they behaved on this very long programme, may well hinder their options going forward if they're using it as a promotion opportunity. She takes it all too far, I'm not sure if any of them would want to be clergy or MPs but she does seem to want them all to go on to do well for themselves.

Aaah I see what you mean UFA yy to the fact she reacts badly to others having their moments, what I meant was the implication that she doesn't feel or have any love in her life, as though the whole concept is alien to her.

I feel sad that Amanda will be out soon. Shane’s youth fan base will keep him in. I do think it is very telling that the women are now using the outside space. Ann and Amanda probably didn’t want to use it with LadzInc watching on and Jess and Ashley and Malika probably didn’t want to endure the LadzInc pile in that would have ensued. It’s interesting. So much more enjoyable than the soft porn we’ve been subject to in previous cbbs. (don’t watch civvy bb, I imagine it’s worse).

Unfucking And I don't think it was a low blow Enrique. It was absolute fact

It was a low blow because it was monumentally unkind, and only said to be hurtful.

Speaking of unkind, I've just seen some of the twitter comments. Blooming Norah, they are harsh. Lots of calling people vile, creatures, out out outing. Andrew was pretty unpleasant, IMO, the others are just ordinary flawed people.

Ohh frogsuits and chocolate biscuits in the hot tub gutted I won't be able to watch till the morning

Pramwanker I'm old enough to be Andrew's mother and have sons both a year older and a year younger than Andrew myself and I can tell you I would have been embarrassed and ashamed if either of mine had behaved as Andrew did.
Maybe I'm a prude or old fashioned but for me there is a time and a place for everything and cavorting (whether that be two men,two women or a man and a woman) in front of an older woman who you know is uncomfortable with it is unnecessary in my eyes. The "bantz", the misogynistic language and the abusive way he spoke about Ann was even worse though.

Maybe it's not the fashionable way these days but I raised dses to be respectful and considerate of the feelings and needs of others and I would have been mortified if someone else ever felt the need to raise my possible embarrassment as a way of reining them in. I certainly wouldn't be laying the blame at that person it would be firmly laid at my sons' feet.

I agree, fleshmarket. I'm not even old enough to be Andrew's mother through any legal activity and I would be mortified if my son were on TV behaving like him.

And that's fine flesh, but the point is that women in their 50s shouldn't be assumed to all share the same views as Ann on public displays of scissoring. Which is what she specifically was complaining about when she mentioned his mother. They/you arent a monolith! That isn't to say Andrew wasn't obnoxious of course.

Interesting point re concern for future careers of the younger ones. Hadn't thought of it like that.

I'd judge someone who wasn't embarrassed by their children's awful behaviour on television. I'd be mortified if my child behaved like that. I would wonder where I had gone wrong in my parenting. I'm in my mid-forties.

People can live their lives however they see fit, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think your behaviour in public impacts how other people view you. People Google prospective partners and job applicants all the time. This behaviour will follow Andrew around for the rest of his life.

Yes Enrique I see what you mean. Quite a few of them have decided that she's loveless. Maybe due to the way she portrays herself though?
And it is factually correct for Shane to say that she reacts to others cuddling/playing/generally being idiots.

I agree with the poster who said the positive influence she and the other older women had on the house was to enable the younger women to escape the pressure to be reckless with the lads.
Which housemate was it saying Jess was being fake?
Those boys fully expected her to be in that house for their amuse and titillation and were devastated that it was denied to them.

I am loving this series.
So much better to have a diverse range of people who can all learn to tolerate each other, adapt and maybe hopefully see life in a different way to the way they saw it before entering the house

Intelligence Squared debate on whether "the Catholic Church is a force for good in the world"

www.faith.org.uk/article/january-february-2010-the-london-debate-why-we-lost-and-what-we-must-learn

Ann Widdecombe briefly acknowledged the pain and horror of recent scandals, conceded historic failures and then pointed out that the Church is so much more than its sexual teaching.
She bravely tried to make a case that the Church's charitable work and her central message of spiritual salvation outweighs any other considerations.

It was unclear from her input whether the Church's message, particularly on controversial moral issues, can be grounded in reason or not.
Given the nature of the attack from Hitchens, this was an important point to miss. Stephen Fry compared her approach to the thief in the dock who says "please ignore that robbery, and the other breaking and entering, my Lord, because I annually give a present to my father".
This is not in any way to impugn Miss Widdecombe's faith, but she is not a theologian, and when the attack is intellectual it is necessary to fight fire with fire.

blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2009/10/fry-hitch-v-catholic-church.html

Anne Widdecombe trying to defend the record of the Church - we "have to measure against the standards prevailing at the time" - you can't blame the Church for the Inquitisition, because torture was pretty popular back then. And, Widdecombe asserted that – until the 1990s, child abuse wasn't frowned upon by society as heavily as it is today, and so we have to judge the Catholic Church's sex abuse scandal in that context.
Don't, Anne told us, "expect the Catholic Church to have acted uniquely". Widdecombe then went on to remind us of the billions of pounds in aid that the Church pours into Africa.

futuristic what have your posts got to with the actual programme do you just dig about google we all know ann widdicombes point of view and stance on things you don't need to point it out why do you keep pointing things out as if we are a bit thick do you think people on these threads are a bit thick ?

Could you clarify what you mean by behaving like that OP? Ie whether you're talking specifically about the scissoring as Ann was when she mentioned Andrew's mother and grandmother, or the other stuff he did and said?

Despite the amount of screen time, I haven't noticed the funny side to Ann which Ashley referred to last night, or heard Ann initiate an interesting conversation (any else?!). 'Cockblocker' is a perfect description of her contribution to the house.

Ann has always been egocentric, she's more likely to have agreed to CBB for exposure (and the £££) rather than out of boredom. I remember her participating in Celebrity Fit Club in 2002 when she was still an MP.

Hoping to see some of the lesser spotted housemates tonight.