Lets talk about Grand Designs last night. Who wants to live in a castle?

[sassy]

How mad was the bloke? How tolerant was his wife?
But that HOUSE! (swoon)

"By excavating now using "modern" techniques are we causing as much damage to future generations as the Victorian archeologists in Egypt did at the end of the last centurary?"

That is the big question Katymac. The whole crux of the issue these days is securing preservation of archaeological remains as much as possible (not that you'd believe it from programmes like Time Team). Archaeological work that is done in connection with development aims to cause minimal disturbance to gain maximum information. That information is used to formulate a strategy to preserve the archaeological remains, be it by avoiding them altogether, preserving them beneath the development, or as a last resort excavating them to preserve them "by record".

Programmes like Time Team, interesting though they are, give a very skewed impression of archaeology in this country.

Timeteam came to our village
And couldn't believe HOW LITTLE they found! There was nothing! Really nothing! They had to resort to peering at the bosses on the church for a bit of interest. God knows what they expected to find, they must have had some theories about something.
Bet they sacked their researcher after that one. Still, we have a nice little commemorative stone saying "Timeteam were'ere" or something

I remember one ridiculous heritage planning woman on Sarah beeny's programme, insisting that a couple put new plastic drainpipes on their Georgian home as it had to be a like for like replacement

"I hate GD with that soft twat commenting like Jilly bloody Goulden does on wine about houses integrity and suchlike"

ooh piffle, you;ve made me feel all warm

I wonder whether he did know more than he let on about scheduled ancient monument consent but was using Ch4 to push English Heritage in the direction he wanted to go...

Georgian house that is.

Was very silly. Can't remember if they won out with iron guttering in the end.

english heritage is bizarre what exactly do they do?

Aloha - I agree that things can be taken to extremes. But remember, this programme was dealing with a nationally important archaeological monument. I think it's listed as well mind you, but the scheduled monument aspect takes precedence. As we are fond of quoting at people "archaeological remains are a finite, non-renewable resource" ie when they're gone, they're gone. Therefore we all have a responsibility to ensure that remains, particularly those of national significance, are treated with the utmost respect and care. And don't ask me how that fits with the building being potentially allowed to fall down. I don't know. Although I know of compulsory purchase orders being used in such instances to enable the structure to be stabilised.

Southeastastra - EH are the advisors to the government on all things heritage.

twinkle my MILs house is the site of a roman settlement. she has the widest section of the fosseway going through her field and a fantastic mosaic under her tennis court

one of the longest inhabited sites in britain apparently.

Wow. That makes her very lucky, or very unlucky depending on your point of view.

she loves it.
always showing hordes of people around for £5 including a cup of tea and a piece of cake.
5000 last summer!

PPH - I think we've killed the thread! Phew - can I go to bed now please?!

Goodnight!

Dream of lovely archaeological things

Aloha - on that Beenster programme the planners wanted iron guttering, but the owners won with authentic looking plastic because the ones they were replacing were plastic, if you get me.

Twinkle & PPH - talk about banging your head against properly recorded brick wall! Twinkle, where do you work (if that's not too cheeky)? I work in heritage management (agri-environment schemes particularly) in Wales.

I work in heritage management too Songbird, development control mostly. Can only say in the north of England as I've been slagging off my employers for cutting my pay massively following job evaluation.

I had a number of peeves...
This architect got planning permission first then acted surprised when scheduled monument consent wasn't immediately forthcoming. Its not a given, scheduled monument consent is a separate thing from planning, it has its own scheduled monument act. I think he knew that from what KMc said in the follow-up programme...

And what sort of architect took away the soil shoring up those interior walls without securing the structure first? Doh!

IMO that building should have listed not scheduled...IMO he eventually got scheduled monument consent because the building had been lived in until 1950....and then, after he had been allowed to create the pastiche we saw, the building seemed to be descheduled...not surprising really given that most of the medieval fabric had collapsed!

IMO £20K for that level of archaeological survey, fieldwork, monitoring and publishing (?) at a scheduled monument was damn cheap.

And, there are other converted scheduled sites, so not such a trailblazer Kevin but that wouldn't have made such a controversial programme would it...and I used to like you before you started taking such cheap shots at heriatge professionals doing their best in difficult situations

What really peeved me most was that some people think they have the god given right to everything they want because its their dream....who cares about rare annoying archaeological survials, who cares about putting a public heritage resource (in its widest sense) in private hands...?

Would have loved it if Simon Thurley had said "I want doesn't get" and then "na na na na na"

Iriam - the building would have been descheduled because it was now occupied and occupied dwellings cannot be scheduled. I think the structure was listed as well - that's fairly common, though EH are trying to rationalise it all.

Sorry Twinklemegan!..my emphasis was omitted...I should have added an ironic note to my statement about scheduled monuments "becoming" listed buildings...

Do you work in the heritage sector as well then Iriam? Actually I thought the programme was reasonably well-balanced, until KM made the comment that the £20k for archaeological work would have come in useful for the interior - grrr!

Yes I do. Believe me, the Trade Secrets follow up programme was even more unbelievable...recommending where to go to get your own ruin (Scotland's full of them mouldering away unloved apparently) and KMc urging people to push "like a rhino" to thwart the heritage bureaucrats...Naomi Cleaver was very funny saying she would have preferred a pile of rubble to the resulting structure and the other architect commentator saying she would have built a modern glass box in the ruin, rather than what resulted!!! Check out the Channel 4 website on the Homes page...apparently you just have to keep the facade of A listed buildings and just do what you like inside!! Sheesh!

Wow - I can't believe there are so many of us! I was half watching the follow-up programme and I thought it was fairly irresponsible I must say.

The mere mention of a scheduled monument coaxes us out of hiding!! I think this is the first time I have actually had a mumsnet conversation on a thread..! Shame its about work Only joking of course!!! Maybe we should have a Mumsnet meetup at the IFA conference this year?! Mind you...Not sure if I have decided I can leave DS for that long!

I'm not a member at the moment I must admit - keep meaning to but then I decide it's not worth the money.

I know what you mean. I always try to drink my membership fee's worth of wine at the conference wine reception!!