Sherlock Xmas special & season 4

[GertyBoo]

Can anyone tell me when these two air on TV?

I agree with VikingLady that for Sherlock to dream a plot involving sinister women like that adds weight to the theory that the puppet-master behind Moriarty is Mrs Holmes, with him slowly getting there through his subconscious. They say that series 4 is going to be dark and life-changing, and to have Sherlock and Mycroft confront their mother would certainly fit that bill.

Actually to have Mrs H kill Mycroft would tick a lot of boxes - the way Sherlock was seen relying on his big brother's protection I think might be foreshadowing of life without Mycroft, and the emotional and political/legal safety net he provides.

I loved it! The mind palace plot was great. So Sherlock is a druggie? I still think moriarty may be alive

I liked what it said about the relationship with Watson - that the reality is that Sherlock isn't on his own and that he needs Watson. The development of the relationship with Mycroft was also good.

Sadly, I don't think Moffat/Gatiss could have made it any clearer that Moriarty is dead, especially the 'It's never twins!' line. They may as well have turned Sherlock to the camera to say 'Stop going on Moriarty fans, he doesn't have a brother, okay?' (Even though in the books, he does.)

And like I said above, what annoys me about their 'Oh my God, just let Moriarty GO already' stance, is that they're unable to themselves!

I don't think that is their stance, though. Basically they developed the Sherlock comes back to life storyline by having Moriarty appear to come back to life, got everyone going, and have now said "Come on, it's impossible" and demonstrated how. It's just another storyline which utilises rather cleverly a reference in the original books, they're not trying to promote any agenda.

TheBestChocolate - it does make sense...

When Mary found the book in their home that was written by Moriarty in canon, it was an eyeroller for me because I thought they just had a long list of canon references that they'd insert randomly just to sue them up, but the existence of the book, coupled with the fact that Sherlock and Mycroft see her as 'ordinary' and almost beneath their notice is interesting. It suggests they don't know their own mother.

And it would mean that 'Moriarty' was more like a paid henchman. It would also explain why someone who likes to stay detached from everything would allow someone to point a loaded gun at his head - he wasn't really the head of the organization, and he was always expendable.

I wonder if 'the other one' might be working for their mother in that case? And if the other one turned out to be dead Moriarty that would be very dark...

DipankrispanevenI was thinking specifically of M/Gs behaviour at cons last year, the eye rolling and sighing and 'no, there's no more Moriarty, what do you not understand about him shooting himself in the head?' only to roll him back out again!

*use them up, not sue them up

I also remembered that we were introduced to Mycroft as Sherlocks arch-enemy. It would actually be quite delicious if their own mother turned out to be their arch-enemy.

Okay, I'm feeling better about yesterdays episode now

But technically they're not lying, he's still dead. Using him in a dream sequence isn't resurrecting him.

I've seen the Feminist KKK plot criticised as mansplainy and someone suggesting that a female co-writer would make it more nuanced, but I think that misses the point that whilst the mechanics of the Victorian crime can be assumed to be accurately deduced, the motives and the background are purely created by Sherlock's imagination, and hence shouldn't be expected to be subtle representations of women. In my version, this is his subconscious telling him that there is someone in the background whom he knows objectively to be a genius, but who he sees only as there to make the tea, and that this may come back to bite him in the arse.

Actually, perhaps she'd kill Mary (Talking about Evil Mrs Holmes as if it's a foregone conclusion now!) She did say that if she found out who put a bullet in her boy she'd turn 'positively monstrous'... And Mary does die in the books... ...

True CaveMum, I suppose my issue really is that Moriarty was my favourite character and I'm pissed off that they killed him, and wouldn't even let him stay dead. I wanted to see real Moriarty not the weird(er) mind-palace version! But if he was just an actor of sorts in the role then it makes sense that they'd start to move him out of the way.

Yes she could definitely kill Mary. That makes her more nuanced and less flat out evil, but Watson wouldn't see it like that.

Stephen Moffett's wife and MIL (Beryl Vertue) are heavily involved in the show and Louise Brealey and Amanda Abbington are pretty vocal on women's issues, so I don't know how people can say there aren't enough female influences in the show.

Oh god I've just made the connection between FatMycroft eating himself to death and my Mycroft is for the chop theory. Damn! I love Mycroft (the 21st century version).

Is it due back in two years? That would make it like when John told Sherlock he'd been away for two years, which he was - for all of us. And by the end of the mind-palace episode Mycroft was saying he felt he could achieve his death in about two years...

They're due to film S4 during 2016, but I don't know if it will be in time for a January 2017 broadcast.

I've thought Mes H was the real power behind Moriarty since Mary found that book. Whilst it is quite possible (esp in the early 70s) that she became a SAHM she'd have been massively frustrated and bored as a genius academic, especially once they went to school.

is he still regularly using, or was it a one off because he was being sent to die? I could forgive that!

I loved and was baffled by it in equal measure! 😊

Glad dh didn't watch it. He struggles enough with the normal episodes. If he'd seen this his head would have exploded.

Sherlock was always a drug user in the original books. In the series they toned it down to a smoking problem but hinted at past drug use in several episodes. He was also in a heroin den in series 3 and the implication was he had been using again.

Just caught up - I bet they all had a FANTASTIC time making this.

At some point in the series Sherlock was getting a nicotine high from lots of nicotine patches, wasn't he?

You all loved it. I was waiting for this for ages and loved it until the scene where Moriarty blew his brain off. Then I was just lost and a bit peed off that I was lost. I hate it when clever people think up plot lines that people like me are baffled by.

I think there was more than an implication he'd been using in s.3 - after John finds him in the drug den they go off to the morgue and Molly runs a drugs test then slaps him and berates him for wasting his mind. Then they go to Baker Street where John has called Mycroft, who's having people search the flat for drugs (or a list?) and who refers to Sherlock's substance abuse habit as interfering with their parents' line dancing. When having a go at Mycroft Sherlock also says "don't appal me when I'm high".

I'm a bit surprised that supposedly Sherlock had a whole bunch of drugs on him on the plane - as he's supposed to be going from prison off on a suicidal government mission somewhere, you'd think someone might have searched him when he left the prison? And not quite sure why Mycroft didn't notice he was using when, as he says, Sherlock was high when he got on the plane? I see some fans are theorising that - unable to live without John, Sherlock was deliberately ODing even before Moriarty showed up again and ended his short-lived exile. Tad on the dramatic side, that.