Sherlock finale thread- WARNING SPOILERS

[Allthingsprettyreturns]

Starting the thread in antcipation!

Loved the bit where Myroft and Sherlock where outside the familly home having a puff and their mum called out about smoking and they acted like guilty schoolboys!

I'm so disappointed the annoying over acted Moriarty will be back. If only they could change the actor. He puts me off watching.

Oh, I LOVE Moriarty and think Andrew thingy (Why can't I remember his name?!?) is wonderful. Chillingly camp, genuinely terrifyingly unpredictable.

Wankwings I totally agree! He's perfect for the role.

I do kind of agree with you but I find him really annoying and to be honest he spoils the enjoyment of watching it, for me.

That's a pity, NewChoos! Maybe it's all a hoax and he isn't back next series at all...

I'd love that - I groaned when we saw him at the end!

I think the Danish villain was more attractive, I'll grant you that.

actually wouldn't kick Andrew thingy out of bed for eating biscuits either

Maybe the reason that we haven't properly been told how Sherlock survived is because it had something to do with Moriarty.

Did we see Sherlock's actual reaction to the news that he was supposedly alive?

I do think Moran was a big, big clue that the Moriarty story wasn't over.

DS is convinced that Andrew Scott is actually Rich Brook - and the real Moriarty (who we haven't met) is using his image to announce himself.

He also reckons it's Sherlock's mum, because she is a genius mathematician .

I love Lars - even with a dodgy hairdo, old man glasses and sweaty hands he's still absolutely gorgeous. And that accent.......!

"Yum yum" indeed.

Pissed off that Mary is still with us, though. She does spoil the dynamic no matter what MG & SM say.

He was much sexier without the beard though
www.google.co.uk/search?q=troels+killing&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=HT3VUs3fNIaO7AaUloBI&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1277&bih=739#facrc=&imgdii=&imgrc=P-iGZmOg1NIP_M%253A%3Bq5h6QGyBFk-qFM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic3.wikia.nocookie.net%252F__cb20120610124009%252Fforbrydelsen%252Fimages%252F2%252F29%252FTroels_Hartmann_1x02.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fforbrydelsen.wikia.com%252Fwiki%252FTroels_Hartmann%3B570%3B668

MMMMMMM

Hang on, we only saw televised images of Moriarty at the end though and not Moriarty in person. It could have been filmed and kept by a trusted henchman to continue his work after death? I know I'm clutching at straws with my theory but having Moriarty back in would just be recycling plots I fear.

CAM was creepy as all hell; eww eww eww. The pit where he pissed in the fireplace knowing they wouldn't lift a finger to stop him; not to mention the face-licking and horrible little personal asides, and when he ate Sherlock's food and washed his fingers in his water glasss. Disgusting. Excellent villanous characterisation!

I didn't quite follow why Mycroft wouldn't know about Mary, I'm sure he thoroughly background checks everyone who comes into contact with his little bro. Not that the git seems all that grateful for the concern - when he was twisting his arm that was genuinely quite scary, a bit more than a brotherly tiff. Though they seemed on good terms again by Christmas - perhaps as the 'constantly worrying' brother of an addict he's had to deal with that sort of behaviour before. I love seeing them interract, it's a complicated relationship but fascinating all the same. Mycroft is my fave bless him. Groaning that Christmas Day had lasted a week and how could it still be two o'clock - he was in agony! And sassing his poor mother but then turning into a guilty 8 year old when caught smoking, heh.

I've seen theories that Mycroft knew what Sherlock was doing with the 'devil with the devil'. After admitting that he cares he makes that comment about there being something in the punch, all a little smooth. And CAM says that Mycroft has been waiting ages for an opportunity to get access to his vaults - though equally Mycroft says CAM is too clever to cause trouble for anyone important, when he's been the target all along! Layers and layers to unpick. Still, we'll probably have two years more to ponder...

I reckon Moriarty isn't alive by the way. A little animated gif does not a return from the dead make. Someone using his image to get attention on the other hand? Much more likely. Someone's suggested that Janine could be Moriarty's sister! She's got the accent, she's quite clever, CAM had something on her when she was his PA... who knows!

I knew it rang a bell!

My memory is certainly rusty. Someone mentioned Moriarty having a twin and it just rang a bell, so I went back to read The Final Problem and there it is..

..he has a brother. Colonel James Moriarty. He only gets a brief mention but Watson states that he has had to write an account of Sherlock's death because of letters that Moriarty's brother had published in his defence.

So yes, it looks likely that they will include Moriarty's brother in the next series.

Another plea to Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat, just in case they do read this (or their wives do), please please stop humanising Sherlock and Doctor Who. We love them for who they are, for being 'superhuman' and for not letting emotions and relationships muddy the waters. If we wanted to watch the dynamics of a relationship there are a hundred different soaps and crime dramas we could tune into but we don't; this is meant to be different so please keep it that way. Get back to the very essence of the man.

I also suspect that Janine might be Moriarty's sister, but yes I think he's dead.

What was the Moran reference Hettie? I missed it, even though I was on the alert for him to turn up (I enjoyed Kim Newman's Moriarty/Moran stories, The Hound of the D'Urbevilles in which Moran is Watson to Moriartt's Holmes).

I also need to rewind and catch the title of Mrs Holmes' monograph - it seemed reminiscent of Moriarty's publication.

For James read Janine.

Straight depictions of ACD's stories have been done before. This is meant to be different. As they say, it's a story about a detective, not a detective story. You can't do a story about a person without humanising him and opening up his life a little bit.

That they've kept the essence of Holmes & Watson is without doubt - the characters shine through just as ACD wrote them.

Sherlock is absolutely not superhuman, just super clever. Dr Who, of course, is not human at all.

X-post. Wasn't copying you, promise :)

Lord Moran tried to blow up Parliament.

I have only read a few of the stories, and that was a long time ago - but even I knew that Moran was Moriarty's 2nd in command. I was even asking where he was during S1 & 2.

Thought it really odd that they'd use his name for a non-speaking part - although he was the big bad in The Empty House.

My exact words to DS were..."Moran? That must mean the Moriarty thing isn't over".

If Moriarty IS dead, can we have CAM back then?

Ma Holmes wrote "The Dynamics of Combustion" (whatever that means).

I doubt Mark Gatiss's wife will be reading Rhubarb - he's married to Ian Hallard, who's an actor (he had a cameo as Moriarty's defence barrister in Reichenbach). Though nothing to stop either of them browsing Mumsnet anyway!

I thought Mrs Holmes' academic work "The Dynamics of Combustion" may have been a reference to the canonical Moriarty authoring "The Dynamics of An Asteroid". They can't have made her field of expertise mathematics, just like his, for nothing...

Hmm, that's a bit like "the dynamics of an asteroid" by Moriarty, but not quite close enough to be a play on words....

X-post

Yes James could well be Janine (and probably is which would serve to make Holmes look even more foolish).

Yes Moran was Moriarty's 2nd in command and may well crop up again.

I get you Hettie and I know it's meant to be different and trust me, it is. They have taken Holmes out of Victorian England, given him a whole new look, made him sexy (Holmes was never ever sexy), taken away his pipe and violin, etc. You couldn't get much different.

This is my opinion but I do know that others feel the same. The Sherlock in Series 1 was brilliant. They kept the mystery of the character and displayed his brilliance.

Now they seem to have lost that touch and by humanising him they've taken away the element of mystery which is what made Holmes so attractive. There is no need to unravel his personal life and psycho-analyse him, even sticking a mental health label onto him. Holmes was perfect just the way he was and they captured that in Series 1 but then let him go.

I feel bitterly disappointed they made him into a murderer and a foolish one at that. He failed to see through Mary. If Janine is James, he would have failed to see that too. He failed to see what Milverton/Magnussen was up to. He had a little teen tant when Watson hauled him out of the drug den. This is NOT Holmes.

I didn't know Gatiss was gay. Still, they might come onto Mumsnet mightn't they? Perhaps they should start a thread in AIBU...in humanising Sherlock Holmes

Oh I don't know Rhubarb give me a man with a pipe, violin and recreational drug habit anyday

He didn't fail to see through Mary. Liar was there when he met her.

I wonder if he DID start to suspect Mary. In the first episode one of the things he deduces about her in the 'words flying round' sequence is 'liar'. Even if he didn't then know what she was lying about, there was surely a seed of suspicion there?

In the wedding episode he gives her a VERY significant look after he outs her as pregnant. Partly because he is realising the implications of it for his friendship with John, yes, but is he also thinking of the wider and worse implications? Also, at the very end of the episode when he leaves the wedding early, the last shot is silent, dark and very melancholy. Again, I know it shows him being 'out in the cold' in terms of his and John's changing relationship, but it is so very sombre, that sequence... I can't help but think there was/is more to his thoughts about Mary.

Re Moriarty, I know we only saw digital pics of him in the show, but during the credits there was what looked very much like a real-life shot, when he says 'Miss me?'