Sherlock finale thread- WARNING SPOILERS

[Allthingsprettyreturns]

Starting the thread in antcipation!

i liked "Don't appall me when I'm high"

winterkills Yes, he had such charisma in The Killing and was good in Borgen too! His voice sounded wrong in Sherlock - kind of high and dweeby - I guess that was meant to add to the creepiness of the character.

FuckingWankwings I thought he'd mentioned it in all three episodes but I guess it just stood out for me. Being a sociopath is very different from being on the autistic spectrum (which I think most people have kind of assumed about Holmes). However there are a lot of popular misconceptions and I wish they hadn't conflated the two conditions. I think he has more autistic traits but perhaps wishes he was a sociopath and truly didn't care about people?

Well, I felt nothing but relief at the end of that episode.
I had completely convinced myself that, whatever the writers had said about writing/signing up for Seasons 4 and 5, they were actually going to finish the series and there would be no more Sherlock. In the books, His Last Bow is the last story and he retires, and I figured that the impossible schedules of BC and MF meant that this would be the logical place to conclude, with them possibly doing pre-falls episodes set during Season 2 at some point in the future (as ACD did).
When Sherlock was heading off on that plane, having just had the 'An east wind is coming' talk with Watson I was crying my eyes out!
So when he came back I was just so HAPPY ... there will be more Sherlocks. YAY!!!

I wonder if CAM was under instruction from Moriarity? He seemed to just let Sherlock kill him. There was such a big deal of SH and JW being checked out by CAMs hench-men at 221b, yet CAM just let them walk into his house. He knew they were coming, why no hench-men in his own home? He would surely have known they were armed. And CAM got his kicks from humilitating people (the licking, pissing etc). He knew JW was SH pressure point, he made sure of it with the fire. Was the flicking of Johns face and eyes (which I found quite chilling) a deliberate attempt to 'flick' Sherlock over the edge and drive him to act totally out of character? And discredit himself in the process...
SH kept getting CAM wrong, he tried to let him think that drugs were a pressure point; CAM saw straight though it, he got the glasses thing wrong. Did Moriarity know he needed to send someone completely different to himself to get SH? He himself was just too like SH for either to outsmart the other. We don't know for sure what happened on the top of that roof. What was the 'Last Vow' - was it the obvious one made at the wedding? Or did he make one to Moriarity on the roof?
(Or are we certain that M. died, apart from the writers saying that he did ... which I wouldn't necessarily believe ...)

I need to go back and watch it again properly as I was too tense to take in half of it last night. Then start drawing my conculsions ...

Oooo... and I LOVED the "You weren't meant to be like that" scene. Martin Freeman was magnificent! The anger and the anguish and the banging down the chair and roaring "You sit there because that's where they SIT. The CLIENTS ..." He was fantastic! That scene alone must have surely got him another BAFTA nomination.

God ... this is very long ... sorry

Currer, I don't know enough about autism or sociopathy to comment, but I agree conflating conditions is not generally a good thing, especially when people might already be confused about them and they have negative connotations and misconceptions attached to them.

Hard to say what Sherlock is, but I think his 'humanity' or ability to understand and relate to others has been developed quite well throughout the show, and quite explicitly through his friendship with John; he acknowledges that in his best man's speech, and in the same episode John says 'Remember, we talked about the showing-off thing?'. One gets the impression that they've had lots of conversations about Other People and How to Behave

Venus, yes, Martin was magnificent in that scene; my other favourite of his 'emotional' scenes is the graveyard one in the last series. He is a wonderful wonderful actor.

The Case-Book of Sherlock Holmes comes after his Last Bow.

I think him being a sociopath again speaks volumes of the fact that Gatiss and Moffat are trying to analyse Holmes, again like The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes did with the meeting with Freud. They have brought his parents in, allude to a childhood of insecurity and the mysterious Red Beard and add tension with his older brother. It's all an attempt to 'humanise' Holmes but they fail to understand that this does not make Holmes any more interesting for the viewer. We like clever plots and deductions and twists, we don't want to watch a soap opera or get involved in relationships.

The stories were brilliant as stand alone tales, you didn't need to read one in order to understand another. It's a shame that, like Doctor Who again, the writers have linked them all. I don't think it's necessary and just serves to confuse.

I do hope that Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat are reading these mini reviews.

I know that BC gets a lot of the plaudits but for me the stand out performance has always been Martin freeman as dr Watson.
Just so...believable.
Have loved every series so far - some eps are better than others obv but I really enjoy watching them.
I disagree with a few on here in that I loved the wedding episode.

'they fail to understand that this does not make Holmes any more interesting for the viewer. We like clever plots and deductions and twists, we don't want to watch a soap opera or get involved in relationships.'

Not for you and others, maybe, Rhubarb, but I personally don't know many of the stories and enjoy the series for its personalities/human elements/relationships just as much as for the deductions and procedures. I'd guess that a lot of people who watch and love Sherlock feel the same.

In this episode I think we saw a lot of the fall-out from Sherlock's fake death. John didn't seem overly upset at finding Sherlock shot, was fairly chirpy at the hospital, didn't hug him at the end when he thought they'd never meet again, and when CAM 'read' him, John's only pressure points were his sister and Mary. CAM would not have been able to get to John by threatening Sherlock, it's almost a reversal of how they were before.

BookroomRed Sun 12-Jan-14 23:04:47
Also, no Irish women of that generation are called Janine. None.

Actually, not true. I know two Irish Janines in the 35-45 bracket. (scuttles away quickly)

It's possible they are reading THERhubard, they seem to be immersed in Twitter etc. Trouble is I get the impression it makes them defensive and high-handed rather than actually taking note.

The relationship between Holmes and Watson has always been central to the popularity of the books/films etc, Watson complements and balances Holmes so it's not wrong to focus on it to some extent but they have gone way overboard on this series so that the 'deductions and procedures' have basically gone out the window.

FuckingWankWings

I guess that is what makes me so disappointed. I like SH because he's different to all that. He doesn't get tangled up in relationships or human elements. When I read the books I remember thinking that at last, I'd found a crime detective that seemed almost to have been written for me. I hate soap operas and romantic guff.

I'm disappointed that the writers have bowed to popular demand and turned Sherlock into something that is more palatable for the millions.

It's not the Sherlock I love. For that reason, I admit to be being slightly gutted.

This series has not been as brill as the previous ones but it is still the best thing on telly IMO,

I understand it must be gutting if you love the original character and feel they've changed it greatly, Rhubarb. I wasn't criticising or questioning your personal feelings about it at all, just saying that it's not necessarily true that viewers in general don't want to watch him dealing with relationships and feelings.

I wonder how much they are bowing to popular demand and how much they always wanted to develop and explore Sherlock's possibilities? (I know I wouldn't mind exploring Benedict's possibilities, leer, phwooaar, etc).

Well they did the same with Doctor Who so I guess they are trying to soften the characters for the populas.

Bit patronising though.

I think the public would have loved the Doctor and Holmes just as they were.

I know that The Casebook was written after The Last Bow, but I had thought that the stories were set before it? Or maybe I've gotten that wrong

I don't think that they prortray Sherlock as a Sociopath (or Psychopath, which I think is the 'correct' term). The writers have shown us over and over again that he very definietly isn't one, particulary in this last series.
I know he thinks (or at least, he claims) himself to be one - but he does tend to misread himself. He says the Work is all he cares about; he shows that isn't true. He also says that he knows nothing of human nature (not entirely true) but it might explain why he might mis-diagnose himself.
Though I think that he does know that he is not a scociopath, but claims it as a form of protection of himelf and the way he chooses to act. And he does choose to act as he does, unlike an actual Sociopath who has no choice, or even much awareness of how they behave.

Personally I quite like Sherlock being educated by John in how to act 'normally', and John being scandalised by his more outrageous behaviour and statements. I also quite enjoyed the element in this last episode of John realising that he has something in him that attracts him to people like Sherlock and Mary who are not 'ordinary'. I suspect other viewers enjoy that too, although I appreciate that some would like a version of Holmes that is more purely faithful to the character of the stories.

Only because we feel the writers have sold out. Holmes is a fascinating character in himself, the dynamics between him and Watson is clear when Holmes is explaining some mystery to him and the humour is all over the stories.

There was no need to change it.

You would have loved the original character as much as this one. There was just no need for them to have changed his entire personality.

Maybe I would. I rather like the TV one though, and the other characters and situations around him.

I don't know if they've 'sold out'. Maybe they were inspired by the original but wanted to explore and put a new spin on the character.

Yeah possibly and I appreciate that, I really do.

I just think it started with so much promise. The Sherlock you saw in that first episode. That was the true Sherlock and see how popular and well that went down.

Then they 'humanised' him and started delving into relationships and suddenly you have complaints. I'm glad it's not just me who has seen the change.

They would have been just as successful if they had kept true to his character, if not more.

The writers lured us all in. Some are still happy but certainly not as many as with that first episode. It's in danger of becoming just another crime drama like so many before it.

Ooh, I like the way the stories weave together (link). Makes it all much more enjoyable for me for lots of different themes to develop.

The only bit I really don't like is the protagonists themselves in constant mortal danger. That really is so very dull and tired, but I am resigned to it being the modern fashion in crime drama.

THERhubarb, you should really try to watch Elementary. I agree with you that "humanising" Sherlock is unnecessary. In Elementary, Sherlock does slowly change through Watson's influence, but it's in small ways and he still stays true to himself, as seen in that clip I linked earlier.

So did Mycroft just say "Redbeard" in Episode 2 to calm Sherlock down before the wedding speech then?

I don't think it'll be just another crime drama as long as they have that amazing cast and don't lose the slightly snarky, self-referential quality of the dialogue.

I also think that, actually, Sherlock seems more Sherlocky this series than last (speaking of course as a non-Conan-Doyle reader). Last series I felt that His Brilliance of Benedict was below par quite a lot, partly because I felt that they lost the character a bit, but this time round he's been 100% on his game IMO.

Elephants, I don't know about the Redbeard thing. The way it was built up, and the way Sherlock reacted to it, it seemed more significant than the rather token scene about the dog being put down suggested. I found that very unsatisfying.

THERhubarb I agree - I don't want to see a soap opera or a humanised Holmes - it takes the mystery away from this great, iconic character (and ditto Doctor Who). The characters were so fascinating for me as a child because they were so different - they are both asexual and superhuman (or literally alien in the Doctor's case) and above other distractions...

I realise we're probably in a minority though, and I can also see FuckingWankwings points about the need to develop characters and move things on. I also enjoyed Watson educating Sherlock about how to behave, and I did enjoy the wedding speech (though I kind of wish they'd left it at the point where he managed to insult the bridesmaids, vicar, and bride etc all in one fell swoop - DH and I were openmouthed with horror!). It has tended to get a bit mushy though between John and Sherlock this series and I was relieved when they didn't hug at the end.

Venus I think you are right that Sherlock has misdiagnosed himself as a sociopath, or perhaps he is even satirising how others might see him? Like his explanation of how he survived the fall - you don't really know if he's being serious?

I can't believe they showed Sherlock dependent on heroin/morphine.

Jeez, first Homeland, now this! has noone left to fancy :(