The White Queen

[ShadeofViolet]

Anyone else ridiculously excited?

I know Philippa Gregory's books tend to be a bit Barbara Cartland in places, and I hope the BBC havent increased it, but I still cannot wait to watch it.

Someone asked why the Hollow Crown was so much better (I agree it was wonderful).

Perhaps because the script for that was written by Shakespeare but the script for this by someone who's an even worse writer than Gregory herself (who I don't rate, I'm afraid)??

Im so disappointed. My absolute most favourite period in History - I do not 'recognise' any of the characters.

agree that it makes 'The Tudors' Series look amazing

That was even more absolute tosh - blimey. The dialogue is dire, I'd expect better from a 6th form play.

Daftest for me was Isabel rushing to her sister to pant "Daddy only married me to Richard (?) for political reasons". After doing her eyes narrowed act all episode and every mother in the court repeating same to their daughters every 5 mins.

I think it's a hoot though as I know nothing of the time - except for reading Josephine Tey's "The Daughter of Time" and hearing it on what was then Radio 7. Really enjoyed it but could never get my head around the who's who.

Can really understand why those who know more about the people and time are appalled. If it were Wodehouse being massacred (witness the last Blandings disaster) I'd feel the same.

Women of rank expected to have marriages arranged. They were property of men.

Yes, it was the lust love match between Edward and Elizabeth that was frowned upon rather than the idea of a political match.

Why don't you like historical fiction then, expat? (Asking because it seems an odd thing to say on this thread).

OMG this is awful.
I say this as someone who knew all the inaccuracies in The Tudors and still bought the box set
I had to turn the TV off and I am afeared too about what the Beeb will do to Wolfhall

Yes, women were the property of men and they grew up knowing that. Particularly those at court.

That your father planned to overthrow the king by your marriage may admittedly come as a shock but as she simpered, that he didn't think of her when he arranged the marriage was daft.

Well, like most of you , have watched and feel very let down by it it is so one dimensional and obviously done on a very small budget....such a shame as they could have done so much more to make the characters much deeper and more interesting.... With all the research and literature on the period its such a shame they have made it so lifeless.

IF they do this to Wolf Hall we shall demand our licence fee back!

What a load of rubbish.

Eliz of York might have been "obedient" to Tudor but apparently she also racked up huge gambling debts - not quite so pure after all. And she didn't do much to stop her husband reducing her mother's state to penury and essentially confining her. No love lost between those two, I reckon.

Both the books and the TV series are appalling - bad history (Henry Tudor wasn't Henry VI's nephew, Edw wasn't present at half the events they have created; the ages are horrendously wrong (Anne Neville supposed to be 8 yrs old in the first episode, and Richard of Gloucester 12; Tudor is meant to be only four years younger than Richard of Gloucester). And they have made Cecily Neville into an old bag, which she definitely wasn't. Both the BBC and those involved should be ashamed. Poor acting, poor costumes. Only James Frayn and the greyhounds are doing a decent job.

i had to go back and watch episode 1 again as someone posted about this previously, and yes, elizabeth's mother does indeed whip out a pair of scissors from the pocket to cut the thread.

I'm a bit confused about the Princes in the Tower. I thought they were supposed to be the sons of Edward IV and Elizabeth (later proclaimed illegitemate) but in the White Queen they are Elizabeth's sons from her previous marriage.

Can someone who knows what they are talking about unlike me enlighten me?

I didn't get that from White Queen?

The princes in the tower were Elizabeth and Edward's sons. I don't think the implication with Elizabeth's older sons is that they're those princes, it's just that she is scared for them.

Pookamoo, I haven't read the book, but I believe Elizabeth went on to have 10 children to Edward (bit if an amateur history buff). They must be the princes in the tower. Yet to be born in the programme?

Henry Tudor was Henry VI's nephew. Catherine of France married Henry V and had a son Henry VI. But after Henry V died she had an affair/secret marriage to Owen Tudor. So Jasper and Edmund Tudor were half brothers to Henry VI. But Henry Tudor's claim to the throne came through his mother Margaret Beaufort, who was descended from John of Gaunt.... the family relationships of this period are very confusing! They all seem to be related!

AH that would explain it. I've just been looking at Wikipedia, and I can see where I got it from: Her sons from the first marriage were called Thomas and Richard, and the princes in the tower were called Edward and Richard.

They really could have done with a baby names thread, couldn't they? Gets so confusing all having the same names!

Her sons at the moment are from her first marriage, they're Thomas and Richard Grey.

She later has Edward, Richard (clearly short on baby names...) and George (who died as a toddler). Edward and Richard are the princes in the tower.

And just to confuse you more, Edward, Richard and George are the three York princes. So her and Edward's sons have the same names as their father and uncles .

I so enjoyed reading The Sunne in Splendour by Sharon Penman that I was really looking forward to this. I am not bothering with episode 3, it's that bad.

to see armour made from recycled bits of cybermen Now that would make the whole thing a lot more fun.
I find most of the acting atrocious, especially Edward, Jeremy Iron's son, based on this I don't think he inherited his parents' talents. In the Hollow Crown everybody was at least very good and some were brilliant. Ben Wishaw as Richard II was great (one of my favourite performances ever but I do like TW rather a lot), Rory Kinnear was very good, Jeremy Irons and Tom Hiddlestone were excellent, no comparison to the performances in TWQ.

at Triumph's cybermen.

An Ood or two strumming a lyre might cheer things up too. Or some bicycling midwives.

Some weeping angels might not look entirely out of place.

Does anyone remember 'the devil's whore'? That was so well done, pretty accurate, dirty and gory and conveyed the sense of 'history' so authentically. Great cast: john simm, michael fassbender, andrea riseborough etc...we rewatch it quite often...cant believe there hasnt been a civil war drama, such an interesting time...