The White Queen

[ShadeofViolet]

Anyone else ridiculously excited?

I know Philippa Gregory's books tend to be a bit Barbara Cartland in places, and I hope the BBC havent increased it, but I still cannot wait to watch it.

Buckingham was sworn in as privy councillor and something else - chancellor? He was officially on Richard's side and his most senior minister. He could have gone where he liked.

Possibly, although I still don't see that he'd have been allowed alone with the princes to murder them, and even if he had, Brackenbury would have known pretty quickly there was a problem and proclaimed Buckingham's guilt to the world. But there was time to bury them 10 ft under rubble at the bottom of a staircase. When Richard executed Buckingham later that year he didn't mention the princes which is odd given that the rumours blaming him (Richard) were so damaging to his hold on the throne - even if it wasn't Buckingham it was a good opportunity for Richard to cast the blame elsewhere.

Oh well, guess you can argue it all ways as the evidence is so patchy!

I don't think that G necessarily has a bee in her bonnet about Margaret Beaufort.

I read it that MB wanted them dead, Anne Neville also wanted them dead but neither was sure if their "I really want this done" had actually turned into someone doing it.

She (PG) does seem fairly stuck on the idea that Richard III did not do it or order it done.

so what line does it take in the book, is pg's theory it was margaret beauford who had the boys killed?, i took it in the tv series that it was being hinted it was anne neville who had them killed, without richards knowledge.

Nipers, I've read both The Red Queen and The White Queen but not The Kingmaker's Daughter (can't bring myself to read it as it'll be more of the same and I find her style quite tedious tbh). She is pretty clear that MB ordered the killings in The Red Queen.

I think it's her pet theory. I still feel that they were more of an immediate threat to Richard III and he was responsible, but the evidence is so sketchy that we will never know I guess!

So where do you think Richard III should be buried?

York!

Actually I don't, I think he'd do more good to Leicester than to York (which already has plenty of tourists and archaeology and it's not like the Minster is short of historical interest) but I do think it should have been decided in a more open way, not in secret deals between Leicester Council and uni (which is what I strongly suspect happened).

And if we do bury him somewhere that goes against his fairly clear wishes, we should at least be honest that that's what we're doing.

He should be buried in York or Westminster.

Not Leicester.

Shouldn't his bones be put in the nearest consecrated ground to where they were found. In this case, Leicester Cathedral. I also think it would be good for the city. On their website they say they are building a raised tomb for him and spending £1 million on it.

just finished Red Queen - quite interesting particularly about the Stanleys.

Judging from the White princess, I guess we see Richard and his Niece flaunt themselves intron of a berived Anne tonight?

Infront

All I can see tonight is Edward Scissorhands.

Much to the disgust of the Yorkist best man from our Lancastrian wedding at a history fair recently, York itself was Lancastrian so burying him in York wouldn't be the best place. But hey, why would they let actual history influence their decision?

One thing I'm going to be glad about tonight being over for is not having to hear Anne saying "I'm the Kingmaker's daughter!" anymore!

Sending Prince Richard away may or may not have happened, but reuniting him with his mother...

This is quite horrible.

He should be buried in Westminster.

I'm blubbing here, I don't dislike Henry Tudor but I'm definitely a Ricardian.

Have just finished watching.

Strange how there was snow on the ground at Bosworth in August... and the battle in the show seemed to take place in a forest? I'm sure that's not right? I thought it was in open fields - how else could Stanley watch what was going on from the sidelines before deciding which side to commit to?

And Margaret Beaufort visiting both Stanley's and Tudor's camps on the eve of the battle and then wandering onto the battlefield at the end! That is really a stretch. Did that happen in the book too? It's ridiculous.

I guess inaccuracies shouldn't really be a surprise, considering what we've seen in the rest of the series. But when the truth is so interesting, why the need to change it? Harrumph!

Disclaimer: I may have been a bit overly involved in this episode, having attended the Bosworth anniversary re-enactment today. I was really looking forward to watching the show tonight but am feeling quite disappointed.

confuddledDOTcom: "York itself was Lancastrian so burying him in York wouldn't be the best place."

Yes, I'm just in the middle of reading a book about the Wars of the Roses and so far York has been a fairly consistently Lancastrian city. I'm only up to Tewkesbury though, so maybe they will suddenly become very Yorkist later? Otherwise, the idea of burying Richard there is just silly.

no in the book she stops narrating and Bosworth told from 3rd party. she writes letters as does Stanley.

also she is so arrogant at the end.

But Richard himself had planned to build a chapel and be buried in york had he not?

I've just finished reading The Red Queen. Margaret stays at home, waiting for news in the book. Sending her to the camps was just silly.

I think it had to be in the forest to disguise the fact that the BBC couldn't afford thousands of soldiers....

RhondaJean: "But Richard himself had planned to build a chapel and be buried in york had he not?"

I heard that. That's why I'm wondering if the city became particularly loyal to him and the house of York after he became king? Because it doesn't seem to have been before.

Yes, her visiting the camps was beyond ridiculous.

This suggests York supported Richard during his rein and sent troops to support his fight against Henry - don't know how accurate it is...

www.historyofyork.org.uk/themes/medieval/king-richard-iii-and-york