Dreams Of A Life - Joyce Vincent - Channel 4

[SoleSource]

Are you watching?

What are your thoughts?

I can really sympathise with that Booyhoo. Sometimes they mellow as they get older, they fear loneliness, death and realise that the carers in an old people's home will not brook any of that critical nonsense!

oh he has mellowed in ways and in others i think he has gotten worse. i just know what subjects are safe and which to avoid. i make a point of always proudly announcing my dcs acheivements (even just tiny things) to him. sort of to let him know that my dcs are not fair game and that i will not partake in belittling them so he daren't try and also to try and make him see that there are other ways he could have been with us. i dont know if that has worked or not but i'm not going to stop. my dcs will get the praise they deserve.

Three whole years!
I wonder if she was going to deliver the presents to old friends or family too

apologies for thread hijack sole

i wonder how close to xmas she died, whether she would have labelled them and delivered them. i wonder if she'd done it the year before.

Apologies??

Nooo its our thread

I just wish I was her friend

I wonder if she.knew..her neighbours

4seven, freeview 47

Now

Shortly before Joyce died she went.into.hospital with an asthma attack. Her next of kin was her bank manager! :(
I don't have next of kin either. No.joke.

Martins Father was racist therefore Martin did not want 'tinted' children.

something changed. something happened to her to trigger her withdrawal. someone who wasn't in the film will know what.

yes that's right, i remember him saying that. do you think that affected her answer when she said she didn't want to be with him the second time?

:( yes oh scary

I wish she'd have rung me, because I would have helped, becaise I love you, Martin.

If only she'd have known

I suspect there was a possibility he' d not made that clear?? Or he did

Teats are flowing now, the end scebe with her beautiful, soft, kind face.

Yes, didnt want to rske over.old ground was her reply.

Her Father was Black, her Mother Indian. According to friends she didn't have many hang.ups about her heritage. She loked into tbe petson to decide if they were wirth kniwing or nott.
f I had a time machine..

why didn't people try harder to keep her in their lives? she was such a lovely person, she seemd so alive and ambitious with her singing, she enjoyed her fashion and style, why didn't she have shopping buddies? why didn't the music friends want to promote her and see where it went? i dont blame any of those people, i just dont understand it.

I have a hunch that things became awkward so she left people. Maybe their relationships with their parents made her think.about what she had lost/never had. The lonliness resurfaced and in the end the only way to escape this constant reminder and her demons was to.withdraw.

You can see from my thread Booyhoo how I understand what.might have xaused Joyce to end her.life alone.

Sorry for going off topic too SoleSource

I think that she was a very good actress and she may have said that she was doing this or that, she was so proud, that in the end it isolated her.

I agree about the shopping buddies, perhaps people always ended up asking too many questions and wanted to know more about her? I suppose it's a natural instinct.

When the black boyfriend (sorry, can't remember his name) said that she had no interests, I thought that was a bit unfair and a dismissive viewpoint - it sort of debased her identity to little more than appearance and a voice, which cannot have been true when she had so much vivacity. She had sung in a studio and put her voice to a record (how many people can say they have done that?) surely she was interested in music? As Sole has said, she was probably interested in fashion, plus she would have naturally have acquired knowledge though her job (was she working in a Treasury department or was this just something she told people?) She would have certainly have had a good geographical knowledge of London after living all over the capital, she would have had opinions on the good and bad places visit, the bars and the restaurants, and it was known that she liked to go clubbing and performing.

It is quite difficult to have no interests in any way, perhaps what they meant is that she didn?t feel proud to say what they were and to explore them and deepen them or that she just wanted to forget herself and make whoever was in her life her main focus to make them happy. Many women tend to do this in relationships but not everyone descends to a lonely death. I wish one of her sisters would explain more.

This film has really touched me too.
I feel so much for her and almost feel she withdrew from the hard nature of life when a beauty grows older and things get more serious.
She seemed to blossom and thrive in the transient, youthful atmosphere of the communal homes and hustle and bustle. But that doesn't last forever. She didn't survive the next step.
She just wilted like a flower. She didn't cope.
So tragic but totally understandable somehow.

i'm wondering if she happened to gravitate towards self involved people who didn't ask her anything about herself, didn't ask her what she got up to on her day off or where she gets her hair done. maybe she did that deliberately or sub consciously, but yes i agree she was bound to have some interests that weren't extensions of who she happened to be with at the time.

did anyone notice an edge to the woman with the very curly hair? i think she was her flatmate at one point. i got the impressions she didn't really like joyce TBH.

i'll go as far as to say i felt she seemed jealous of joyce.

Me too Booy

I did not like her. Cold, snob!!! Probably jealous.

Ifonly Joyce had had Mumsnet back then!!!

god yes! she could have had all the support without having to explain herself to anyone in RL.

:( too late for her wasn't it?

Tragic

Imagine how many lives this site has saved?

But we have no idea what the cause of death was.

Yes, the transience and power of beauty, she was at her best when making an impact, as the guys fondly recalled her wearing her powder blue, spray on dress! Why not, if you are young and have it going on! The addiction of turning heads and creating a buzz at a party must have been a highlight of her week, she felt wanted and desired. Her friends started settling down and the guys who were not good, perhaps were no longer entranced as she wasn't a newcomer.

On the website, it says that she worked at Ernst, some women can immerse themselves in their job and manage to reach a level of seniority where asking too many personal questions is not a sign of respect, what stopped her getting to that level? Was she late or missed too many days through depression?

Do you think that she would have used Mumsnet had it been around?

I hope she would have. In her flat on her phone. One or two reads and the site is addictive.

Oh God, yes, the envy was palpable.The dour one in the coat and the one that vaguely looked like Vanessa Williams in the red jumper seemed to me like envy, she naturally attracted men and was enjoying being young, did she steal others' boyfriends? If she did nobody said that, her only crime seemed to be being very attractive. Other women can say such cruel things and that can make someone very sensitive dwell to the point of obsession on what has been said. Did their envy of her ease in attracting men encourage awful comments that pushed her further into depression?

Was the woman in the red jumper supposed to have been a friend? She didn't seem to speak of her fondly, she was rolling her eyes about something (will have to go back and see what it was). If Joyce had been a difficult character, it would have been an idea to have given an example of why she was hard work.

My friend said that the dour woman in the coat looked as though she could barely disguise her surprised glee at her lack of qualifications (I found the reading out of each low grade qualification both disrespectful and unnecessary). Joyce would have hated that.