Dreams Of A Life - Joyce Vincent - Channel 4

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Are you watching?

What are your thoughts?

I wonder who her ex abusive boyfriend was? Who knows what kind of life her Father gave her as a child.

I watched it and found it terribly sad. It was slightly haunting, almost. I did think that perhaps what someone said about her choosing to withdraw from people and die alone was maybe just them trying to deal with their own guilt about the situation.

Also thought Martin seemed lovely.
It seems so bizarre to me that at no point did anyone force entry to her flat, I didn't know til this thread that her sisters had hired a private investigator.....did the layout of her building mean that looking through her living room window was impossible?

I wondered tgat about hetwindow

Imaginethe shock of seing her skeletal body

she was a free spirit and wantedher Mother and Fatbers love.

She drifted searchingfor it

She felt she didn't velong

Such a sad story- really mysterious.

I read about it in the paper years ago. Never forgot the story- so many gaps and questions that can never be answered.

It shows how easy it is to slip down into the millions and just get lost.

I watched this a while ago ad it is one of those program's that stays with you. I can very easily see how this happens. I live in London and talk to none of my old friends. I never even told them I ha left Sheffield to move to the midlands! People eventually stop trying to get in touch and life gets int he way.

I don't think it was suicide my understanding was that she has actually been in and had been seen by medical professionals prior to her death?

The Xmas presents were very sad. As for her sisters I haven't seen mine for 3 years or spoken to her. I can well imagine a similar thing happenin to her if I'm honest

*ill

That's it, isn't it, FairyJen? So easy to imagine it happening.

On a very very selfish note if I didn't pay my council tax etc they would be round within three days to chase me!

Maybe she wasso damagedshe could not take drifting from petson to.person anymore. Her confidebcehad been far too badly damaged so she stayed away from people.

I felt really awful for Martin as he clearly really loved her and it sounded like he was getting overwhelmed by the end of the interview.

It is such a chilling story and the main thing that is strange is how she died. The show touched upon that she seemed in a bad place when she was bunking in at martins place on the couch but they didn't seem to go in depth about that stuff.

Such a shame

I think the lack of speculation in the doc was actually a good thing- as there IS no clear answer, no real solution, they left a lot unexplored.

The fact that the family allegedly contacted a PI for me, rings untrue. She wouldn't have been that hard to find...or perhaps, if it is true, it just shows how much she didn't want to be found.

I also can't help but think...who were those presents for?

Its an amazing thought provoking film about how much we ever really know anyone

Wasnn't Joyce in a safe house?

Maybe that is why the PI could not find her??

Who was this ex that beat her, the poluce must know..

I found the film very intriguing and sad. The actress who played her, portrayed her well, but I must admit that I kept thinking of her character of Vod from Fresh Meat, in which she is crazily confident, hard looking, sexy, arrogant and deluded, all at the same time! Joyce Vincent had a somewhat softer and kinder look to her face and that combined with her allure and awareness of having a great body must have driven men to distraction when she chose to turn it on.

It seems that she had an ideal of the life she wanted to live and when that didn?t materialise she adopted the attitude that she would fake it until she made it. Sometimes this attitude succeeds for people but it necessitates never being too close or they will discover where you live and what you do and the loneliness must have been preferable to the shame of any ordinariness that closeness would have brought. I?m not sure that I agree that having children would have been good for her. Most of them time, it means standing at the gates every day, seeing many of the same people who ask questions and get to know what you are doing in the community, it means doing what you say you will do, stability and commitment ? qualities that felt were countered to her wish for a life of mystery and glamour.

It struck me that she was trying to find a way out of a dreary life and as I think they said, Martin, however kind, was perhaps just a stepping stone to another life. The whiteboard showed Goodwood, acting lessons etc, so she clearly had a drive to get to a certain point in her life. By the end, it seems that she viewed Martin as a brother or father figure, what a shame that she couldn?t have confided in him! Who had criticized her so much that she couldn?t admit the truth, even to him? Why did he ask her when she would be leaving, if he adored her so? Was there a girlfriend on the scene? I would have liked to have known so much more.

Yup who had criticized her.that much? Her Father I reckon... I wondered why he was keen for her to leave so much too...Martin came home from work and she was gone..she had pride

Was Martin's reason for wishing her to leave, edited out or was he not asked further on the subject by the director? He said that the flat was small but if she was the love of his life then that would not have mattered to him. He is obviously a nice guy but I sense that he wasn?t enough for her and perhaps she wanted a life of fame, glamour and excitement?

And the song she sang, transported me back to the early 90s, it had similarities to a Primal Scream song from back then. Why didn?t the song succeed with the men making it being her friends? Surely they would have readily promoted her? Her voice maybe wasn't perfect but it had emotion. I would have probably bought it at the time. I would buy it now if it raises awareness of the issues she and many others share.

Martin said he askedher to be his girlfriebd again but she said she didn't want to go over old ground. This must have been after she called the dread lock guy and he refused her offerto hook up again. Maybe she was emotionally backward or they sensed she migt have been using them. Martin said he thought six mo.ths was long enough and she should leave to sort her lufe out.

I liked her voice too although.i think tbe big guy with the black top [god he was sexy] said she couldb't sing and she could mime at the back.

"I?m not sure that I agree that having children would have been good for her. Most of them time, it means standing at the gates every day, seeing many of the same people who ask questions and get to know what you are doing in the community, it means doing what you say you will do, stability and commitment ? qualities that felt were countered to her wish for a life of mystery and glamour. "

what i meant was that it would have made it almost impossible for her to disappear and lose touch with everyone who knew her. i know because it's my dcs that keep me from being a total recluse when i have been very low. there are routines that must be followed and i have to leave the house every day or people in authority would start looking for my dcs. through her theoretical children joyce would possibly have been protected from her fate of dying alone, unless that was what she really really wanted of course even with children.

I got the feeling she wanted to disappear. She was able to infiltrate lots of different groups because people liked her and she was attractive but she never stayed with any of them. Some people just drift

i think martin was her 'safe' person. i just got that impression from how he spoke and the way she came to him when she has nowhere else. i think she felt safe with him and knew she wouldn't have to divulge too much, that he would let her stay without too much questioning. then of course he did start questioning (pressuring?) and she needed to go then.

i did notice though that although martin said he had said he thought 6 months was enough time to sort herself out and that he had asked her when she was leaving, he then followed up by saying "she could have stayed as long as she wanted. she knew that" but how can she have if he was asking when she was going? it annoyed me when he said that tbh.

She was afraid of livong tbe dream of marriage and children said one of her ex boyfriends. It is mostly down toher childhood. Such a waste. :(

Me too Booyhoo wrt to what Martin said.

Mind games maube. Because he felt rejected..

Ooh Martin stated that he thinks of Joyce constantly. He talks to her as if she is there.

I thought I was pnly one whom did that. She was the love of his life he said.

Martin hadn't seen her since 2002???

maybe. i can understand feeling frustrated after 6 months of someone on your sofa with no mention of why they're there (although it's not a big leap to realise she had nowhere else) or when they're leaving. and i can understand him asking her about it. but to say that she knew she could stay as long as she wanted is a lie if you do in fact feel frustrated and want a date named for her leaving.