Anyone watching Growing Up Poor?

[besmirchedandbewildered]

On BBC3 now.

Tough times, and they are so young :(

watched this last night.

Felt such a sense of disappointment when it was revealed that Shelby is pregnant. Of all the girls she was the only one who I felt had the slightest chance of improving her life. Not any more.

Bridie will be pregnant before she's 18 too.

You cant write Shelby off just because she is pregnant though. She seemed very sensible and that will stand her in good stead in the future.

Then again if you have nothing and life is shit then it might well appear that its your only future.

I was going to say similar Jake.

Maybe the disappointment of doing a work programme for 6 months with nothing to show for it made her feel that it was the only way she could support herself.

I understand why Shelby was pregnant by the end. Why not? Something to look forward to, something to do, someone to love.

She is in a shit position, not of her own making.

I understand why she was pregnant too and why girls like her so often do have babies very young.

However the fantasy of unconditionally loving a little baby rarely plays out.
The father will piss off, she's become resentful, bored and - possibly- neglectful towards her child and she'll be unemployable for many years. She'll seek comfort wherever she can find it - most likely in the arm of another useless scrote and she'll be pregnant with no2 before you know it.

Her position wasn't entirely of her making but she must (and did) admit some responsibility. She said herself - as did Bridie - that she never paid attention or worked hard at school which has, consequently, limited her choices.

I totally get what you are saying Nancy but if you have no real support at home or even neglect then it doesn't foster a desire or an ability to concentrate on schoolwork.
I see many children and some have an ongoing low level depression due to circumstances totally beyond their control at home. They are highly unlikely to be able to concentrate on the fine details of Maths or English(or anything else come to that) as a result.
I am not saying they can't, achieve as some can and are able to do so despite their circumstances. It's not going to be as likely for the neglected or traumatised child to achieve good functional exam results as it is for a child who is within a loving, secure home though.

I don't know Shelbys background and tbh I think your assessment could be correct about the ease with which the baby's father might well walk away. I just feel though that Shelby was left in dire circumstances, no real adult figure in her life, a work experience job which left her without even the price of a cheap carpet for her living room although she at least has a small bit of experience she can put on a job application now.

I so wish she was not pregnant....but she is and all we can do now is look at the shit deal life has dealt her and see how it can be changed for future children.

Good post Jake.

I just wish it could be drummed into kids from that sort of background that education is their ONLY escape route.

Very sad though.

I often wonder if the pregancy route also offers them a chance of unconditional love. Something I doubt very many of these kids have had. Shelby seemed so lonely.

I had a friend at school who lived with her dad and brothers. Mum had died, all the males were actually quite abusive to her.

When most kids were getting home for their tea, my mate was washing up the day's debris and tidying up the kitchen before cooking for her family. She used to clean up after them all by herself.

When the rest of us were settling down to homework she was washing and ironing or shopping for food. Her brothers were constantly causing trouble and arguing in the house. It was so disruptive and she was always tired in school. There was no way she could equally take all the opportunities that other kids had.

Carbondated, good luck with Homestart, I do our local soup kitchen once a month and really enjoy it. I took my OH along one night and he was amazed by how "human" the people were, due to the social conditioning he'd had which puts homeless people into "non-human/useless/waste of space/just ignore them" pigeonholes. He talked to some of the guys who had jobs and families and who lost them all through an unlucky chain of events, usually starting with losing their jobs. One woman saying how when it's too cold for her to sleep she wanders the town and looks in all the shop windows...so sad. There were lots of younger people there too, with potty mouths and some got a bit arsey with us but there's always a few like that.

Had to chuckle at them being picky with the free sandwiches: "haven't you got any tomato......But I wanted ham......I don't like brown bread...." Er it's free my dears, take what you can and think yourself lucky ;) Volunteering for this certainly gives you a new respect for people and makes you examine your own life too.

I don't know what saddened me most - seeing the life those girls have to live, or hearing the judgemental comments here and elsewhere from people who will never have to live such a life.

I'm old for Mumsnet (65) and I'm ashamed that we've allowed this to happen in this country of ours - I live about an hour away from Shelby and my life has been very different from hers. Do I take credit for that? Do I sit here smugly reflecting on my efforts and my non-smoking, non-chaotic lifestyle? Or do I realise that I've been so, so lucky? That my parents cared for me physically and (mostly) emotionally, that I survived to adulthood with at least some of my self-esteem intact and as much education as I wanted?

How dare we blame these girls for smoking, or violent outbursts, or getting pregnant? It isn't that some people are just born virtuous and aspirational while the rest are lazy layabouts - someone has to show you that you have power, that you can access information, that you can make changes.

These young women are the products of a society we've created by our voting habits and our apathy. We're all responsible.

Finally, a tiny thing occurred to me tonight as I watched Shelby struggle to furnish her flat. Every day on Freecycle there are offers of good furniture and household items - but who gets them? Mostly, the sort of people who offer them - people with internet access, with cars, who can get online frequently and collect their free goods themselves. What a waste.

something touched me about Bridie, her inability to even contemplate a future, like she doesn't even know the future exists, that she is already convinced she will end up dead or in prison or something, that the present is so overwhelming that it is just too hard to plan or look forward.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p013nd1d the first boy says his mum wants him but cant afford him, shows how the no hb for under35s will work!

babyboom I totally agree. I haven't had an easy life at all, but I feel very lucky to have what I have. My DP regularly chats to and buys hot drinks/sandwiches etc for homeless people he sees in town (and I have started to do the same). Those who say they won't give them money because they're probably druggies, are missing the point. The fact that on a freezing cold day someone is sat outdoors indicates that they are in a grim situation. Under different circumstances that could be any one of us.

It's so easy to judge and condemn. When I left my abusive ex-H, I had a father and friends I could live with till I got a council flat of my own. If I hadn't had support I would have been in a hostel at a time when I was traumatised, petrified, penniless and exhausted. My father would never have got the best parent of the year award, but he had my interests at heart and provided a safe roof over my head and food on the table until I was able to sort things out. I am lucky. Bridie and Shelby don't have that back-up.

babyboomers that is a great post. i totally agree.

and yes excellent point about freecycle. those girls had no hope of getting a free cooker or fridge as they couldn't afford internet and even if they got to the library, how could the get to collect stuff or have it transported?

nailak i can empathise with bridie somewhat in that aspect. it can be so very very hard to see any future when every penny you have is gone the minute you have it on the basic necessities and worse, on debts you have accrued just surviving. i am in a better position now than i was a year ago, but if my washing machine decides to give up i will be pretty much back where i was with a bit more debt to add to the stress. you cant even look forward to the next payday because you know it will be gone on essentials/debts as soon as it hits your account.

I saw this too and was a bit .

I think it's about a mental state rather than a financial one as such. How do you inspire someone like Bridie?

Rather than sponsoring a person, what about donating to CItizens advice bureau so they can do more outreach? Or look at what community schemes are in place so your money can fund positive mentors to many young people?

The OU offers grants - if these girls have a reasonable grasp of education they can start a degree course. If not there's essential skills program's available for free. I wonder if they know about these things?

A lot of people live on £10 a day ( DD and I do- rest is saved) so what are they missing?

i think bridie had built up some arrears and had a court fine to pay which would have accounted for some of her expenses.

also i do think she wanted to get out of her situation although i missed the reason why she couldn't go to the army as that is what she kept saying she wanted to do. was it her arrest record blocking her way?

this programme made my heart :( that some are trying so hard to get out of the hole, but just cant

living in a shitty one room place/no oven/plus falling off the wall - prob a fire risk and no one cares enough to help - how did they end up there/where were the parents? :(

to get so excited over some carpet and then being able to use her cooker to make soup - something that most of us take for granted with gas/electricity/ovens/food etc

someone said there are always many items of furniture on freecycle, but course you need internet access and means of transport- which these girls dont have

though they need a lesson in food shopping, looking at the list with crisps/juice/chips/fish fingers etc - buying microwave chips for £2.50 rather then a huge bag of potatoes and can make mash/jackets/chips

living off benefits cant be easy, but i understand why they do rather then work many hours and still get the same money a week

shelby working for a crap wage but at least she was trying and wanted to get out of the vicious circle she was in - and no she prob wont ever as pregnant but so hope she does :) she deserved housing benefit as trying to better herself, just sad no job at the end of it - damn that man where she worked

certain things gixer77 said i agree with- they all manage to smoke yet have no money, and it makes my blood boil that pregnant and smokes esp as i cant have children

but no sign of dad with both girls :(, no money and i hope that being a parent theirselves that they get a lifeline and can improve their situations - least amber had parents who cared about her

but sadly yes if i/my friends lost our jobs we wouldnt get any thing to help pay our bills, yet these girls get their rent paid but dont work - but thats the way the benefit system works and not shelby/bridies fault

havnt seen part two yet - its repeated tomorrow (thur) morning at 12.30am on bbc three - be interesting to see the difference between girls and boys - so hope to see tomorrow after ive finished work

you know what there should be standards of decor, like carpet or vinyl or something in rentals. was shelby's flat a private rental or council or what? surely flooring is a pretty basic thing that should be done before renting to someone?

you would think boo - im assuming its private rented and the landlord doesnt care

the fact plugs on the wall by floor with wires falling out of them was awful

yes it must have been private. council would have sorted those sockets wouldn't they?

i've just put new vinyl down in my bathroom. it was £10. just cheap stuff. i'm sure it would have cost £40 max to put a cheap bit of vinyl down in her flat. some landlords are terrible! i wonder how much it was costing her to live there. did it say?

is there an ofcom type body for landlords? there should be. maybe then LL would be forced to do the necessary work instead of making money out of desperate people for living in a bare box.

zukie that is awful. do the council really not put adequate flooring down before a new tenant arrives? why the hell not? are people really expected to recarpet/refloor and entire house/flat? why do they rip the existing stuff up? surely it would do no harm to leave it down aslong as it was clean!

i'm really shocked by this. flooring is pretty basic. no-one expects a fully decorated house but bare concrete/floorboards is a bit much!

blondes she couldnt make stuff as she had no cooker, and didnt know how to make stuff in the microwave, i suppose you can make mash and jackets in microwave, but you need to know that first!

and yes most people who move in to council houses have to put their own carpets down. the places are completely bare and unfurnished, and they wont sort out things like double glazing, damp etc