Doctor Who Geeks , new thread!

[TheAngelshavetheOod]

Hope no one else hasn't started one

cakebot River got to 1938 but the TARDIS couldn't. She said that it was because the vortex manipulator could sneak through

Also if the TARDIS can't get through, maybe the Doctor can't either, because he's a Time Lord, so he's linked to the TARDIS - River isn't a Time Lord any more, so maybe not affected in the same way? When Jack became immortal, the doctor said he became a fixed point, a 'fact' and that he reacted against it, it was in his guts, he couldn't help it, and the TARDIS literally went to the end of the universe to get away from him. Maybe the Doctor is afraid the TARDIS would rip the earth apart if he tried to travel to Amy.

This conveniently ignores the fact that Jack has travelled on the TARDIS since, but only when the earth was pretty disrupted and out of its proper point in space and time anyway.

choccyJules said on the old thread: I don't get it either, Aitch, cos Amy writing in the afterword of the book, is telling him to (paraphrasing) 'go to Amelia and tell her to be patient as she'll have fab adventures one day'. If he goes, well, he's there isn't he, so she'll stop waiting in the cold garden (or back in the house if she's sensible)...but of course he won't travel with her yet as she's a child SO when he turns up yet again and Amy's now a grown-up strippergram how come she gets so cross with him for not coming back in the inetervening years. If he's now (due to reading the book) going to do just that?

Sorry for the long quote, it's just so I don't have to keep popping back to the old thread to see what you said...

OK, the Amelia he is now going back to see (and the Amelia we saw in that clip two years ago) is the post-crack-mending Amelia. We don't know what she did when the Doctor came back.

But I would think that once the crack had been removed from Amelia's wall, she grew up with her parents, as normal, except that she had still met the Doctor when the TARDIS crashed in her garden, that he had promised her a ride, went to the moon and didn't come back. So she still grew up with an obsession about the raggedy doctor, biting psychologists and hoping he would come back. I think Amy asked the Doctor to go back to her younger self sitting waiting in the garden and tell her that he would come back to pick her up when she was older and she would do all those things, so that instead of thinking he'd forgotten about her and getting obsessed, she would just have faith that he would come back. So she would have a happier childhood.

Just don't ask me why Amelia's parents didn't notice the TARDIS crashing in their back garden. Perhaps they were just heavy sleepers....

I assumed that the ageing comments were not insecurity on River's part but the fact that she knew it pained the Doctor to see his companions wither in front of his eyes whilst he will go on.

First time posting on these Doctor Who discussions. There's something still bothering me about the whole Amy story arc.

If in the rebooted universe the Doctor did crash land in Amy's garden and then come back to reassure her that he'd return (as we saw at the end of last night's episode), then why did Amy have to remember him at her wedding? Surely she would never have forgotten him if that had happened 12 years earlier?

Basically, IIRC the Doctor hadn't (in post-crack timeline) ever done any of those things, because he'd never existed... UNTIL Amy remembered him, and that act of remembering caused him to exist (and to have always existed) after all, so that all that stuff had happened again.

I wasn't quite feeling last nights episode, though am struggling to put my finger on why.

I'm going along with RustyBear (because it's what I understood) as represented by the final shot that lovely sepia photograph of a very happy child.

Also didn't feel remotely threatened by the wrinkles thing and can totally get that the doctor would get freaked out by aging when he doesn't age himself.

I thought the whole episode was epic and a rightfully touching way to get rid of the Ponds. Felt truly bereft at the end.

The Moff could see it as a legitimate character trait for Eleven, Aitch, but aside from that one remark by River there's no evidence for it. Back on, and um, either Dinosaurs or Mercy, I forget, he remarked that the Ponds were looking older but he just seemed confused by it. Similarly in this one when he saw Amy's lines, he was confused then surprised but not sad. And when River gave him her blah blah blah husband with the face of a twelve-year-old speech he looked confused again. He HAS looked sad when someone (Amy in Dinosaurs, Brian in Power of Three) reminds him that he ultimately moves on and leaves his companions behind, but as you said that goes with the territory and he doesn't move around about it all the time. And like Ten he's in near-constant denial that it will ever happen to his current companions.

I think I've got some of that now, thanks all.

Frankly when work colleagues call me a geek, they have no idea of the levels of geekdom out there! I'm a mere fan...

I reported my last post on the old thread and cheekily asked MNHQ to redirect people here, because the last thread filled up without us noticing - I didn't really think they would, but they have! Thanks MNHQ!

Excellent!

I was worried about loads of us starting a new thread at once.

Please help me understand the end.

Why wouldn't the Doctor be able to see the Ponds ever again? The Doctor says Amy has a created a fixed point in time, why is this the case? The tombstone gave their ages but not the year they died. The fixed point is their death and not the rest of their life.

He also says NY could be blown apart if the TARDIS goes back - they could use the vortex thingy or travel in.

River can go and find them and so should be able to get Amy to leave a Hello Mummy/Doctor clue about the place.

I need to watch them all again.

Ok I've probably come very late to the party, and forgot to bring a banana, and I haven't read most of the last threads but...

I think the doctor does like seeing River getting old because he knows what is going to happen, series 4 forest of the dead River says "This means you have always known how it will end" when she hooks herself up to CAL.

And did I read the gravestone right? Didn't it say Amy was 5 years older than Rory when she died? Seems sad to outlive him afetr all that!

Yep she was 87. No dates, just age at death.

I didn't feel it at all either. Almost ready to abandon DW sadly. So is the Doctor freaked out by ageing, rather then people who are old? He has been pretty old himself (not counting the super ageing under The Master), William Hartnell anyone? I just can't wait for Merlin to start tbh. Why oh why did they choose another young guy to play DW and not someone a little more original and why oh why another dolly bird (OK with brains) as a companion? I am ready to go........

I also wondered about why Amy was so much older than Rory on the headstone. And why their death would create a fixed point in time, as surely they were always going to die at some point.

She travelled with the Doctor for longer. So was older.
The angels fix it so you die at the same point you were taken I think

So is the Doctor freaked out by ageing, rather then people who are old?

I think it's not the ageing so much as his friends ageing before his eyes and the realisation he'll lose them. Imagine being immortal and seeing those you love age and die around you.

I could feel the attachment with other people when DT was DW but just don't with MS. The stories are much better this series so far, loved he Daleks

I think MS is (or was) very fond of Amy and Rory. He ensured they could go back to an ordinary life and kept going back for them. He organised them an anniversary treat last week for example.

I don't think we will ever know the full story. Everyone seems to have different questions and Moffat will have to write an entire new series just to answer the questions everyone has.

I officially give up and will just watch as a casual viewer fro Christmas I think.

It may be that there isn't a full story and we're just reading too much into stuff.

This is why I hated English Lit - pulling apart a book that was written just to be enjoyed.