protecting our children

[thekidsrule]

carry on please

I think it was shown to demonstrate how many different people are involved in taking a very difficult decision. Ie they aren't made lightly and it is a team effort.

Sorry, I haven't read all of this thread as it has got too big. To me, the bottom line was that Toby had special needs and they seemed to keep avoiding dealing with that and just making the assumption that "better parenting" was all that was needed, as well as the practical comforts and love etc. A child with SN needs, let's say for the sake of argument, TWICE the amount of parenting than a child with no SN but they are, let's say, TWICE as hard to parent, therefore its a double whammy. The whole situation was tragic, the parents had serious problems, especially the dad, which were probably not their fault but that doesn't help any kids. No amount of improved parenting was going to be enough to deal with his SNs and they needed to get to grips with that asap.
Friends tell me they've had SWs who are obstructive and difficult but we've had wonderful SWs over the years for DS (ASD), some better than others. In fact, we had the same SW as a friend and I thought she was fine and my friend hated her!! I also have a good friend who is a SW is Child Protection who has a child with SN herself and her job is mind blowing.
I thought the "parenting" issue was a bit of a smoke screen and they needed to deal with the SNs of the child.

Interesting - people watch the same thing and take different things away (as ever!)

I did say 'encouraged'. I 100% believe in disabled/disadvantaged people having the right to be parents (is in human rights act).

But why aren't all schoolgirls offered long term contraception, just like vaccinations? Given at 16/18 would stop a lot of cases like this happening and give time to develop life skills, finish education, find employment, get decent housing and learn what a good relationship is.

absolutely, charlotte.

I also think people should have to attend classes before being allowed to have kids.

The tragedy is it only takes one drunken 2 second fumble to produce a whole problematic human.

no, hully, you are wrong. editing is somethign i know about. the meeting will have been plenty wrong but what they showed was formal language, that woman's ridiculous nails and a 'look' between the parents. the director will have creamed their knickers when they caught that.

Davros- I agree the impact Toby having sn was having on the parents was ignored. Tiffany may have been fine parenting a non sn child- but she never got to try.

i know about editing too.

i think we shall have to agree to disagree on that one.

I even disagree about what the look meant.

lol well hully is there nothing you don't know about?

I'm not very good on the combustion engine, but I could probs brush up.

If people needed 'licences' to have DCs, hully, then the human race would die out!

Look how hard it is to get approved for adoption.

If everyone's parenting was monitored then lots more people would have DCs removed but it is only the poor/ disabled/ vulnerable who are monitored intensively enough to ever identify any problems so they are 'punished' where a 'middle class' family wouldn't be.

Read the stately homes threads- SS won't remove rich kids even if they're getting beaten up.

The human race would certainly shrink - no bad thing for all the other species and the health of the planet.

Why is having children a "right"?

"Hullygully Tue 31-Jan-12 09:34:49
I think it was shown to demonstrate how many different people are involved in taking a very difficult decision. Ie they aren't made lightly and it is a team effort."

god love you, hully, but this is about the cutest thing i've ever seen. it's not a promotional brochure for Bristol SS.

It was from the SS point of view. The directors just want good telly, of course. The parents just want to get the hell out and carry on sitting in squalor and ignoring their kids.

Maybe it appeared like that to me because it was familiar. I can imagine them thinking it will demonstrate that!

What would the boy have got out of being left in that environment?

How much therapy would the mother need to parent him? You cannot change the biology of someones brain, therapy is not a cure-all. Is there time for that? The boy is already 3.8yrs and cannot talk and is not potty trained, what would he have been like if he'd received the right environment from conception?

We are 50% genes, 50% environment, not one or the other.

So you think, aitch, it was edited to make people feel sorry for the parents because it appeared they couldn't understand the process?

If you do, I still don't agree.

i think that the point of editing is to point up (even create) highs and lows, light and shade. the editor, if a good one, and i see no reason to assume otherwise, will have been conscious of not wanting this to be a publicity film for Bristol SS and to create a sense of drama while not actually (because it's the BBC) actively demonising. i do think that the director will have been delighted with the formality of that meeting and the woman's ridiculous nails as a counterpoint to the squalour seen in the parents' home and their reduced ability to understand what is going on, and may have directed the editor to highlight that.

I see this is a long thread so i will just add my thoughts poor toby it was heartbreaking to watch , dad wasnt all there i dont care if its non Pc he wasnt right and i wouldve been scared if i was tiffany , I do think she sort of tried her best , but neglect is neglect , families like this are not that rare Im glad she decided to put them up for adoption i did feel for her though

Hully- we have human rights such as the right to family life to prevent future atrocities repeating the holocaust.

When people in power decide that one group of people don't deserve life let alone the right to reproduce then the repercussions are much worse than anything SS ever see.

charlotte - well I didn't say it would be easy...

yy I agree aitch, but i think i took something different from it than you.

I don't remember the nails?!

What made me saddest was seeing that boy improve so quickly after being placed. Sad at thinking why it took so long to pick up a problem with this family and the damage done to that boy during those years. I felt for the SWs too, must be very hard to sleep at night while leaving the child in the care of those parents while you undertake the assessment process. I suspect there was a lot of anxiety during that time that things with Mike could have escalated to the point where the child suffered physical violence or an accident.

charolotte you are talking about peoples Human rights but then talking about forced contraception for all girls or just disadvantaged ? I do see where you are coming from , girls and young women need more than to leave school and have baby after baby but forced contraception isnt the way to go imo ,

What about the childs right to reach its full potential? Must be difficult if the child has no bed, no safe area to play (free from dog shit, the wrong sort of which can cause blindness), no interaction with other children (the child was not in free nursery education). Did he have a good diet? His father was unresponsive, his mother clearly loved the little boy but lacked the cognitive ability to tansfer that into creating a nurturing environment for her son.

And I am no SS apologist as I've read plenty of stories in UK Column.

bunny the social worker he had was only starting on his case was the familiy involved with SS before that , It was sad to see how he improved but i was happy for him ,in the short weeks he was with foster care he improved even if you didnt see his face you could see the manner in which he behaved he had improved , I do think his parents dad especially had special needs so maybe he inherited some of that , but his developmental delay couldve been avoided ,