protecting our children

[thekidsrule]

carry on please

They would have done that before the meeting, Mrs D

I think that we are getting a bit bogged down with language! I said right at the start that I felt sorry for them in the meeting-they were outnumbered and out of their depth. However -it was the formal part -which I expect had to be gone through -to do it 'by the book' which you have to these days. Mike was very aware of his rights-which was why he took Toby home when Tiffany was in hospital. The had had endless interventions first-with appropriate language.
It boils down to what Hullygully has just said.

I think the difficulty is that it is a terribly emotive thing - we all imagine how we would feel etc,.

But the programme is designed to show the work that social workers do, it isn't primarily about the family, so you don't get to see all the work and effort that goes into a family, because there isn't the space. Neither do you get all the real nitty gritty about what's gone on and what's in the case notes because it would be inappropriate.

Sorry-cross posted Hully's post before last.

But they might not have done it appropriately then either.

Or the parents might not have been in a place to take it all in.

Which sort of illustrates how hard it is to get this right.

The main issue is that what woud be best for parent is often in conflict with what would be best for the child. It is a simple but devasting statement really.

It means that working in CP is one of the most difficult jobs in the world and i couldnt do it.

so because the parents have had it explained to them beforehand it's fine to exclude them from the meeting? why have them there, then?

I keep cross posting -I agree with Hully's post of 9.03

'There's no money for intensive therapeutic intervention, even if there were any guarantee it would work.'

Why?

It's because instead of screaming at their line managers and getting them to scream at their seniors they take the easier path and direct their energies at vulnerable people who can't fight back.

I have seen what goes into trying to keep a family together.

The work is monumental.

How do we give parents a fair chance without damaging the children?

Buggered if I know.

you seem very defensive of the SS, exotic.

I am. I wouldn't do the job for any money offered. They are in an impossible situation.

And a very upsetting job-I couldn't go home and forget about it. I would have sleepless nights worrying about Toby if he was left with parents or Toby if he was taken away. It is a no win situation.

tell you what i thought was interesting about the parents' vocabulary... it seemed to have been learned from SS and care. i suspect that their use of language in some ways disguised their lack of understanding. so while the father purportedly 'knew his rights' he didn't in any way that was going to help him access better support for the family. he just knew what to be (rightly) suspicious of, knowing that the minute they got their mitts on Toby that would be it, he'd be gone. and so it proved to be. rightly or wrongly i don't know. but the whole thing seemed like them taking advantage of the mother's illness.

i don't think anyone's arguing about how hard the job is, but it may be that the camera picks up things that ss are no longer seeing. such as exclusivity of language. the parents exchanged a look at that case meeting that clearly said to me 'we are in over our heads here'.

I disagree that the mothers illness was taken advantage of. They were already about to start legal action.

I know that when I was depressed I wouldn't have been able to speak up in a formal meeting- and I'm well educated and don't have any learning disabilities.

They should have had an advocate.

Parents like these need years of intensive help, before they even think about becoming parents themseves. Think about it. Even if you are from a stable home, you are probably well into your 20s before you have the emotional maturity to be a sensible parent.

That's 20years to be an emotionally mature person. How on earth is society able to fund that sort of intervention.

Starlight, they can all scream as much as they like. There's a budget.

It goes like this: Shall we fund extra visits for 93 year old blind Mrs Y so she doesn't eat poisonous out of date food? Or parenting intervention for Mr and Mrs X?

Impossible.

Aitch - they have to be at the meeting. The meeting would also have been a lot longer, we just saw a snapshot to illustrate the multi-party decision making process.

I think you are being unrealistic about Mike!

sure, but isn't that a call for a mass sterilisation programme?

"multi-party decision making process"

the what what?

No, but there's no way we're willing to pay extra taxes for this sort of thing, so..........

Highlander- exactly these problems should have been identified when t and m were teenagers. Get them help before they ever become parents and make sure contraception is encouraged until they are ready.

sure, but isn't that a call for a mass sterilisation programme?

Don't even go there...I know a woman who was given extremely expensive residental therapeutic support to enable her to stay with her ELEVENTH child. All the other ten had been taken into care.

I would certainly say that there is a case for contraceptive implants.

All schoolchildren should be taught parenting skills IMO, just like the old 'domestic science' but for the boys aswell.

i might not know much about ss, but i do know about telly, and that scene was included to demonstrate that the multi-party decision-making process is nothing of the sort and that the parents didn't understand the language being used.

Ahh, the old CAFCASS office I used to work at looked exactly like the one in this programme, I'm sure they must all have the same coloured chairs. I was only 19 when I worked with them in admin, we used to process emergency care orders for newborn babies, never understood the magnitude of their work at the time.

The childrens guardians were mostly men, very kindly mostly. They must have been made of thicker stuff than the average person as one recalled a child he was guardian for was killed by his own father, harrowing, really don't know how they do it.

Concerned that the little boy in the programme may just end up in and out of foster care.