protecting our children

[thekidsrule]

carry on please

Pickgo- do you really think Toby would have been better staying with his parents?
His aggression eased in foster care,he was starting to communicate, he had a safe environment without dog poo on the floor. Why should society let a vulnerable child suffer like that ?
The support needed for the parents to try to parent Toby would have been a residential placement. These are in short supply and very expensive. If social care had millions then maybe it would have worked,but maybe not. In the meantime Toby is still not getting the care he needs to thrive.
Tiffany showed insight and love for Toby by letting him go.

Quite a few of us have voiced regret that Tiffany would never get to see Toby again. I wish that were possible. However, her caring for him day-to-day and having him live with her is another matter - I think he would very likely be better off living with a new family.

Oh ffs, it is not all about the person's childhood - I just do not buy it. You can teach parenting.

Or did we all have perfect childhoods? Me? No.

So what happens to the next children Tiff and Mike have?

Have they learnt anything?

Will they have more of a chance of being better parents?

Do their kids have a better chance?

But why should children like Toby pay the price of someone else's shitty childhood? He shouldn't in short, and isn't. Even his mother could see that.

You can teach parenting but she simply couldn't cope, she was depressed the medication was getting her through the day. She didn't seem to have anything left to give by the end.

Tiffany certainly has learnt from it all. That was quite clear.

i give up,all the stay with mother brigade still wont answer my ?????

wonder why

The SW gave Mike & Tiffany quite a few chances, to do things like sort out the bed, clean up, fit the gate, etc. but these simple things weren't done. Why? Inability or incapability - or a bit of both perhaps. But whatever the reason, Mike & Tiffany simply weren't up to the task of caring for Toby.

Fingers crossed neither of them have any more children OneLieIn, I'd imagine they might have been told the outcome will be the same if they do.

im dubiouse about the residential intervention, not sure children should be brought up in institutions like that.

No you cannot always be successful in teaching parenting. Some parents have been emotionally damaged from their own childhoods and are unable to grasp basic care for their children. Even if you spent pots of money it wouldn't change the lack of parental instinct. Tiffany might have succeeded if she had a mother and baby foster placement when Toby was born. Then she could have been mothered alongside her son.Perhaps it would have changed the outcome.
But then there was Mike to be considered.

And if Mike & Tiffany do have more children, those children will be "in the system" from conception - unlike poor Toby. Action will be swift and let's face it, there's a shortage of babies available for adoption.

Happy to answer kidsrule if your question is whether the "the physical abuse that was stated is just to be forgotten about" - no, of course not. What I am proposing is that the adoption is not the right answer. These people, parents and children needed help. Residential intensive support to help them become better parents and to do this in a safe environment.

We fail new parents so badly in this country. We don't help, we expect people to "know" parenting, it just doesn't work like that.

I missed the beginning, so I don't know the level of physical abuse.

Moss adoption can work out well and it also cannot. I know both. I know an older woman who to this day is crucified emotionally by having her dc adopted many years ago. It isn't a fairy story.
But it isn't about the adults, it's about giving the children a better life. It's no more than what each and every child deserves. The simple fact is, is children are not always better off with their biological parents.

So what happens to the next children Tiff and Mike have?
If those parents are able to learn and to have been taught something valuable, they'll hopefully use contraception until they have sought further help.

I didn't see the programme, however I think that some of the predictions here about long term foster care are really negative. ExH's family fostered a child similar to Toby. He had SN and came from a neglectful, bordeline abusive home. He was 3 when he came to them. 30 odd years later he is still living with ExPIL. He has a "job" with a charity. He has a relationship with his bro and grandparents and has occasional contact with his parents.

It was definitely the right decision by the SWs to take him into care.

tiffany has learnt a lesson agreed, but i dounbt very much she has learned the skills of self esteem, preservation and managing her life adequatly, sadly as she walked off that will be her untill she has more children. But she is an adult and will be viewed as having capacity to seek help, but that is the reality you cannot force change upon people.

OneLieIn - residential placements do happen. So do mother and baby foster care placements for young girls who become pregnant. I don't think the success rates of these are very high, if I remember correctly. Maybe a social worker will come on and tell us whether they work.

Strawbezza I am mortified at your response, it is absolutely heartless. Babies are not commodities that you have a shortage of.

"And if Mike & Tiffany do have more children, those children will be "in the system" from conception - unlike poor Toby. Action will be swift and let's face it, there's a shortage of babies available for adoption."

And I doubt btw, that they will be in the system from conception

I think the cost to the child in order for the parents to learn how to parent Toby, in this case, would simply be too high.

Tiffany has problems from childhood, as far as we could see she had no family or close friends giving support. She isn't strong (who would be in that situation?) She is very vulnerable and quite likely to fall for another 'Mike'-putting her DCs back at risk. What she needs a a 'mum' living with them-a sort of kindly granny-to give her love and confidence and help her with the practical. Even if there was the money, it needs a real 'Mary Poppins' type figure to do it. (Judging by the hoards of people on here who have trouble with the family granny)

It is very sad but I don't think that you can risk the DCs ,while she gets her act together. They will at least be able to see the film when they are adults and understand that they were loved. Loved enough to do a really unselfish act.

We dont expect parents to know parenting! I have had midwives, gps, health visitors, family link workers, nursery workers, reception class teachers - in fact dozens of people whose job it is to help, support and guide parents towards parenting well. There are many many threads on MN and elsewhere complaining about the amount of advice and information we are given.

Tiffany and Mike were unable to listen and act on advice and support. Time had run out.

tiger I also have a friend who has had a ton of counselling and has never ever got over the fact that her mother gave her up for adoption. My point was that adoption can be very hard on both children and parents.

thank you ONELIEIN for answering

physical abuse was stated at begining,that and all the other incidents of neglect have made me think the SW made the right decision (maybe with a little tweek)

so will have to agree to disagree on this one

But we didn't actually see what support services were put in place for the family to try and help them. A vulnerable family must have had some other services helping them

That was me Exotic - I think Toby would have paid too high a price emotionally and developmentally if left with his parents, in case I wasn't clear.