protecting our children

[thekidsrule]

carry on please

She should have been given the chance to try - much better for him to be with his mum and have lots of support than in care.

Let's face it he will now have the 'rough' care of fosterer after fosterer then probably a care home as he gets older, then kicked out at 18 thoroughly fucked up as well as his other problems.

Great instance of positive state intervention....NOT.

the meddling social workers???? Sorry but I can't see that point of view at all. AS far as I could see they were doing everything they could to support the family - but it wasn't working. She WASN'T a good enough parent - even she saw that.

"They were told exactly what to do to keep the house clean, and yet they didn't do it."

Exactly - since when did giving people a list and "telling them what to do" work??????????

Where is the collaborative , we can fix this together approach?

Confrontation encouraged - not at all friendly, helpful or engaging.

Heart breaking programme. Although because it comes from a social services pov I'm guessing that's the reason they didn't show much of the support they might have been getting from other services like homestart, health visitor etc?

They were given a lot of chances. The bits we saw were obviously not the sum total. The fact that they did nothing to change despite being given huge amounts of help meant that in the end adoption/foster care would be the best for them.

oneliein - They were offered advice and help and parents didn't meet them half way. There has to be some cut off point - a child cannot suffer like that indefinitely. He was clearly suffering, as could be seen through his behaviour and anger. After being placed in foster care - it was shown that Toby had improved and become a much happier child. That is what matters.

I think she could have coped on her own. I think the dad was a really big factor in her not parenting Toby.

With the right (very expensive support) I think Toby would have been better off with her than in the system. I mean in the long term, his FC seemed very good.

oneliein I share some of your views but the father was a real problem. I could sympathise with him and I felt for him but his son was being neglected and possibly abused and he wasnt having any of it.

How much time do social workers have to stand over people and watch them wash the kitchen floor?!

It's not rocket science!

OneLieIn - parenting support is expensive though, and budgets are being cut. I would suspect that if Toby had a nursery place maybe at a children's centre, then Tiffany would have been offered parenting classes - but impossible to make her attend.

Generally though family support workers have large caseloads in Bristol, and limited time to spend with each family.

stranded "4months of intensive SS involvment" seemed (yes, could have been edited extensively to be nothing more than buying a bed and writing a list.

Maybe I miss the point, but I do not see how this ends happily in adoption?

Do you all honestly think that there was no help that could be given that could have helped them stay together, improve their skills as parents? Whether together or apart? Nothing at all??????

"the boy didn't own a toothbrush at all and you think SS were meddling?" FFS, no toothbrush doesn't equal adoption otherwise mine would definitely be adopted

It was made clear in the programme that both parents had had dealings with SS since they were children.

I do not quite understand why it is the responsibility of the rest of us to completely support those who will not support themselves.

Mike had a laptop and a puppy but no bedding.
He hugged the dog but not his child.
He needed treatment but was never going to accept it.

I could see he was doing better in a different environment, and he ceratinly needed a proper home to live in day to day, but it does seem desperately sad that Tiffany won't see him again as a child. Don't know how often it is the case that birth parents regularly see their children who have been taken into foster care.

Exactly obeliein. Instead of going in to tell her to clean up why didn't they roll up their sleeves and show/help her to do it?

I thought the parents were really restrained, I'd have probably come very close to assault myself if I'd had that lot in my house.

I HATED the meddling social workers. I feel so angry. Poor poor poor Toby, poor poor poor baby and poor mum - how terrible to be badgered to the point where you feel your only option is to adopt because you are not a good enough parent.

But she wasn't a good enough parent. They had no end of help. No one wanted to remove the DCs. The social workers were very caring.I think that Tiffany was to be applauded to think of her children before herself.

The only confrontation I saw was from the father who refused to accept that any of the situation was his responsibility.

I wouldn't have thought that someone really needed a list to encourage them to lift hte dog shit off the carpet?

I believe that the children's rights to a safe upbringing outweighs the parents rights for years of "support" and there comes a time when we have to accept that some people just shouldn't be parents.

I don't think so I guess if you put your child up for adoption there is no going back

I think its all sad, God only knows what awful childhoods Tiffney and mike had, they have that 'haunted' 'watchful' look of kids that have been abused. They had no chance of parenting, they had nothing to base it on.

Toby is pretty screwed already, he will have attachment issues along with all his other special needs. Please someone adopt him.

I'm just can't agree with your pov oneliein. I think the social workers gave the couple alot of chances, and were working under difficult circumstances with the dad's behaviour towards them.

I think Tiffany did exactly the right thing for her children, and was very brave to do so.

I thought Tiffany was exceptionally brave and unselfish in the end. My heart goes out to her.

"OneLieIn - parenting support is expensive though, and budgets are being cut. " oh yes, use the financial argument. It is costing lots to keep him in foster care, lots for adoption too.....there is no financial argument. Improving the parenting skills of our nation is an absolute must.

You do NOT NOT NOT solve the problem of poor parenting by SS intervention and ultimate adoption....

"Generally though family support workers have large caseloads in Bristol, and limited time to spend with each family." NO EXCUSE

OneLieIn - you really have no idea. I thought the social workers were ever so diplomatic. The section when the dad and toby were 'playing' together under observation told it all. And then the social worker had the courtesy to tell the dad all the good things he did, as well as shrowding the bad things (ie not playing with him for first 45mins!!) in gentle words of advice.

You cannot just fix such massive social issues of neglect collaboratively. Those parents needed guidance and standards clearly laid out for them. THat was helpful!

the dad didn't brush his own teeth. writing them a list when they are so woefully ill equipped to deal with themselves was never going to work.

Exactly, thesecondcoming

are you willing for taxes to go up and benefits to be savagely cut elsewhere to pay for unlimited SW support for people like Mike?

So how do you do it OneLieIn??? Whats the magic cure?