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Downton Abbey part 4 we want to know more

618 replies

ThePsychicSatsuma · 07/11/2011 21:50

I still need to talk about it.

OP posts:
limitedperiodonly · 27/12/2011 18:40

Doing it in the afternoon helps. People have to go home

tribpot · 27/12/2011 20:13

Was actually was the point of the ouija board sub-plot?

  • Mrs Cook gets to manipulate Daisy into going to see her FIL
  • Lav echoes the mood of a nation (and her own words prior to death) by saying "would they just get it together already?"

There was also some half-baked message which I suppose was from Vera Bates but it didn't make any sense?

anonacfr · 27/12/2011 22:12

I was so hoping slimy Bates would hang and that would be the end of it.

Am I the only who was a bit Hmm at Anna's reaction to the evidence? She just found that her husband called his ex a bitch, tried to hit her and told his boss he wished she was dead and she's just annoyed that they didn't all lie under oath? I'd be a bit worried about the character of the man I'd married in her shoes...

Glad we didn't have to see Pickle and Sybil's love story. Hearing about it was bad enough!

I'm a sucker for Mary and Matthew so loved the ending though. I'm not a fan of Isobel normally but her tough love approach with Matthew was fantastic!

All in all entertaining with a sweet ending but the acting felt very wooden to me. As usual there were too many plot lines but it was better handled than in the last series, aside from the awful Lavinia message (someone mentioned it could have been from Bates' wife- how?)

SarahBumBarer · 29/12/2011 13:01

Ahh just watched in on DVD. I had no idea that Mary and Matthew would sort everything out so quickly so I was very happy! Loved old Lady G - back to her funniest best. Even DH rewound the DVD recorder when she said "Do you promise" to Sir R Grin Daisy gets on my nerves though but hopefully there will be no more whinging about her "dishonesty" in marrying William and that is all resolved now. I thought that the ouja board was going to have a message from Mrs B. Do we know for sure that Bates did not kill her?

Limted you are norty. I'm sure HB was busy being a good family man.

Animation · 29/12/2011 14:22

"Do we know for sure that Bates did not kill her?"

I don't think we do really.Confused

You never know, he could be released but then turn more and more sinister in the next series - to the point of ALMOST bumping off Anna with arsenic poisoning!! Hopefully she would pull through in the nick of time, finally convinced he was attempting to do her in whilst wooing someone new. Shock

diddl · 29/12/2011 15:00

Can I just boast & say that I had thought that the punch would be about Lavinia & not MaryBlushGrin

CheerfulYank · 29/12/2011 15:59

Bates didn't do it. Because if he did, he and Anna will not be able to have their small hotel with the children.

And they must, I can't bear anything else!

diddl · 29/12/2011 16:12

Let´s hope for some happiness for Edith now!

Was rather hoping that Mary would clear off to America.

Perhaps the bores her & Matthew will.

FrankH · 29/12/2011 16:45

I must admit to greatly enjoying DA, but really it is puerile rubbish full of two dimensional stereotypical characters.

Julian Fellowes claims that he is not a snob - and I give him the benefit of the doubt as he seems to be a very nice person. But he really is a grand old tory with a romanticised and sanitised view of the "good old days". Many have commented that the relationship between the aristocrats and the servants at Downton is impossibly close and comradely.

Sorry, I'm being far too po-faced about all this - I might even get the DVDs and enjoy giving my mind a rest, and just wallowing...

But...if Bates really did do it, the series would immediately become more thought provoking.

Please, please, please, Julian Fellowes - let Bates be really guilty!

CheerfulYank · 29/12/2011 16:49

I really hope Edith gets Strallen. They really seem to like each other.

If Sybs can stand firm and marry Picks, then surely Edith can find the backbone to convince Strallen to marry her.

CheerfulYank · 29/12/2011 16:50

How dare you?

Bossybritches22 · 29/12/2011 17:02

FrankH

You are obviously far too intellectual to be slumming it here with the likes of us who post on this thread because WE like the series as it is & want to have fun talking about it so run along & play with some serious TV critics & leave us to gossip please!

I think Edith would be excellent for Sir One-Arm Bandit, she needs to be needed & would make an old man very happy so then she would be happy too. Grin

Mary doesn't need to go to America now if she has Mathew by her side the gossip will be about Bates not her & I think as she parted on slightly more amicable terms with Sir R than expected, it might all die down. She won't care anyway will she?

FrankH · 29/12/2011 17:33

Bossybritches22
But I like the series as it is :)!

Only suggesting that Bates as a murderer might make it more interesting.

Actually, I don't really want him to be a murderer :o, even though I think he's too good to be true - epitome of the romantic view of the "best of the British working class"!

This seems to be the only thread on MN on DA, so if I'm really far too intellectual for this thread, I apologise. I certainly don't consider posting here to be "slumming it", and I don't mind anyone gossiping on it about whatever they like - in fact much of it is great fun.

[I do have a confession to make. I am not a mum. I'm not even a woman.

I came across MN because of the good impression I got of it as a result of the hacking scandals - of personal interest as people I know are involved. I was immediately impressed because of the much more civilised and polite standard of discussion as compared with the male-dominated forums I am used to. How refreshing to read posts not littered with obscenities, comparatively free of bigotry and hatred etc.etc.

It is no wonder that so many studies have linked the state of advancement of any society with the status of women in it.

However, Bossybritches22, if my presence here annoys you, you are free to report me to the MN authorities and get me expelled, though I never pretended to be a woman to be accepted!]

tribpot · 29/12/2011 18:22

FrankH - I agree, Downton is impossibly democratic. But it kind of has to be for the plot to work. I would like the contrast with a 'normal' house of the time to be shown, i.e. by Daisy or Anna working elsewhere for a while, so that it became obvious that Lord 6 is a benevolent despot rather than typical of his class.

Bates appears to have been convicted without any actual evidence at all, he just said 'a few bad things', I hope Lord Peter Wimsey (right period?) is on his way to sort this out. If they had proper detectives in Ancient Rome (Falco, Gordianus) they obviously must have done in the 1920s too.

I'm not sure we'll be able to maintain the standard you've set for posts not littered with obscenities, particularly now you've suggested Batesy should hang :) The only greater sin would be saying you think Sybil shouldn't have married Pickle - or Mary Matthew.

limitedperiodonly · 29/12/2011 19:58

FrankH marking my place because I've got to get on with the dinner - aspic is a bugger to perfect.

But yes, it would be miles more exciting

fluffytowels · 29/12/2011 20:30

Can I reassert my prediction that Edith will become a Nazi in the third series.

In Mitford Sisters tradition we have a communist, an aristocrat now we just need a Nazi. (of course that would make JF Nancy but he'd be fine with that) Wink

tribpot · 29/12/2011 20:33

Trouble is, Upstairs Downstairs did that plot, didn't they? (Albeit in the 30s, not the 20s).

I'd like Edith to become political, ideally an MP. Because it would make Lord 6's fat head explode. I think Syb is more of a political wife, rather than a politician herself; Michelle Obama not Hillary Clinton. (NB Pickle is not Obama, no way would Obama have buggered about for 6 years glowering in a garage).

LittleGingerbreadHouse · 29/12/2011 20:41

Finally caught up having been deprived on Christmas Day and saved up DTA as a treat for tonight.

OOh! Lots of potential for that ouija board as a plot tool. Manipulative Mrs P or O'Brien or anyone can misuse it and every now and then "real" messages can come through and spook everybody. Love it!!

iwasyoungonce · 29/12/2011 21:19

What happened with the man who turned up all bandaged up claiming to be the rightful heir of Downton Abbey, as he had not perished on the Titanic as everybody thought? I didn't think I'd missed an episode, but this wasn't even mentioned in the Christmas special??

wheredidiputit · 29/12/2011 21:57

He admitted he had worked with the rightful heir, and took his identity. but he began to like the sister who was spending all her time with him and he admitted to her everything. i think he was moved to a different hospital.

NanBullensBlingtasticBaubles · 29/12/2011 21:59

did he? must have missed that bit Shock

HeadsRollingInTheAisles · 29/12/2011 22:09

I don't remember that at all?? He just left suddenly with a note saying something like it was too hard?

fluffytowels · 29/12/2011 22:11

I must have missed that bit too. I just thought he up and left Blush

FrankH · 29/12/2011 23:18

tribpot I'm not a prude, so I don't mind obscenities being used, in moderation and appropriately. What I find objectionable in the male-dominated forums I am used to (mostly football and other sports) is the number of posters who don't seem to be able to post without using obscenities. There are some females - "ladettes" - who behave similarly, but I'm sure MN posters are above this sort of juvenile behaviour.

As regards Bates - there is no danger now of his being hanged. He has been found guilty of murder, but his sentence has been commuted to Life Imprisonment. At the cost of losing a tear-jerking farewell scene between Bates and Anna, Julian Fellowes has set up the theme of an appeal, and possible vindication of Bates, which can be allowed to run for as long as possible, i.e. until he feels the public will have tired of it.

If JF wants to please public opinion he will have Bates' appeal being successful, and he and Anna living happily ever after (with Bateslings?), being rewarded as good characters should be in any moralistic fairy tale. If he decides on artistic boldness, he will do what a previous poster on MN has suggested. Bates' appeal succeeds, but as Anna and he go on she discovers a much nastier side to his character - with the possibility indeed that he did murder the first Mrs.B., and the threat that Anna herself might be in danger. This is a very risky line to go on with in plot development. I suspect that JF is not quite good enough a writer to carry it off, so I don't think he will try it - but will be pleasantly surprised if he does try it and succeed.

This line would give the Bates character a depth which he doesn't have at present. It is a commonplace of our tabloid press - and I include especially the Daily Mail and the Sun in this - that human beings can be neatly categorised as goodies and baddies, into "heroes" and "scum". The fact is that in real life the same person can often be a hero in some situations, and scum in others. Bates is clearly portrayed as a hero in a military situation, but military heroes aren't necessarily always good towards other people, including towards women.

As for the other untouchables, I didn't mind Sybil and Pickle going off together, as I found neither character particularly interesting, and Pickle I thought a mixture of the unbelievable and the unlikeable. They can stay in Ireland as far as I'm concerned and never darken Downton's rooms again. As for Mary and Matthew, I'm going to be boring and agree with I suspect the vast majority of DA fans - hooray!!!

limitedperiodonly I hope your aspic has turned out OK Wine

I see that in my first post on this thread I described DA as "puerile rubbish". That's unfortunate terminology which I regret using. DA isn't rubbish. What I should have described it as is "nonsense" - in the highest sense of the term, because nonsense can be worthwhile and enjoyable, as DA certainly is.

LadyHarrietDeSpook · 30/12/2011 01:07

Frank: Are you Lord Fatty Bum Bum or the Ghost of Pamuk inflitrating? Or Dan Stevens pretending this is the Review Show?? It is not. But welcome anyway.

Anyway, yada yada yada snooorrreee, poor ole Bates. However:

I do feel bad for Anna. She is the MUCH more interesting character, JF could have made more of her. Never worked out why she wasn't at all bothered carrying Pamuk across the corridor unlike poor Daisy. Is there something in her personality in that regard...that leads her to give Bates the benefit of?

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