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Telly addicts

A very dangerous doctor.

71 replies

TheOriginalFAB · 12/05/2011 21:10

Is anyone watching this? I had to turn it off after it showed a woman suffocating a baby.

OP posts:
Ryoko · 12/05/2011 22:42

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PiaThreeTimes · 12/05/2011 22:46

I thought his behaviour seemed consistent with someone under a great deal of pressure. Trying to maintain a calm disposition; appealing to the interviewer with eyes, etc. I wouldn't presume that he's being arrogant or lying. His calling Social Services because he had suspicians of one mum is normal, isn't it?

I don't defend him (obviously don't know enough about it!), but I don't jump to the conclusion that he's insane and necessarily in the wrong. There wasn't enough evidence to prosecute him.

Documentaries like this really make me count my blessings. Those poor children. :(

befuzzled · 12/05/2011 22:52

Apparently as a result of the early video surveillance work there were 33 arrest an prosecutions of parents or step parents and no mention that any children died.

All very odd.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 12/05/2011 22:55

No they didn't prosecute but the GMC did strike him off for abusing his position.

He accused Sally Clarke's husband of abuse based on a TV programme.

smallwhitecat · 12/05/2011 22:59

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DuelingFanjo · 12/05/2011 23:09

very well put together documentary, but horrible images at the start :(.

DilysPrice · 12/05/2011 23:19

Whilst the guy does seem to have lost it, I don't understand why reaching a verdict based on a TV programme is meant to be so wrong.

If I watched an episode of Crimewatch and a witness was being interviewed and specifically mentioned something that I knew was impossible due to my particular esoteric area of expertise, then I'd ring up the cops and say "You should know that (IMO) that witness must have been lying". Nothing crazy about that, if I was right, though of course if I was wrong, or over-interpreting it then that would be a different matter - but intervening based on a TV interview with a suspect is not crazy per se.

munchausens · 12/05/2011 23:29

I used to think no smoke without fire and it could never happen to a family like us........... until it did........ and then you realize that the protective, well educated middle class mother challenging of misdiagnosis or non diagnosis is exactly the profile they have typecast for munchausens by proxy.

How does anyone ever get over these accusations as it is all still very current for us? Watching the programme it would appear you dont however many years pass. How many lives need to be destroyed?

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 13/05/2011 09:53

I think that it's difficult to form an fully informed opinion based on a TV programme because one cannot know how much bias is within the programme. And whilst a professional may form an opinion I think it's a step too far to write a report actually accusing a parent of abuse without further investigation. Especially as someone who is supposedly an 'expert witness' in a subject. He never met or interviewed the Clarks.

Of course this is equally true of last night's programme - as I said earlier there's a whole host of stuff that wasn't mentioned in that programme.

SybilBeddows · 13/05/2011 09:58

one thing that bothered me about the program, on reflection:
why did they have to get a doctor to be critical about him who is already his long-time enemy? Surely there are enough people working in child protection, that they could have found someone to comment who would have been less personally involved and therefore more objective?

it made me think: actually, the program is set up to make you think 'I don't know', just as some programs are set up to make you think people are guilty and some are set up to make you think they're innocent.

smallwhitecat · 13/05/2011 11:23

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sharbie · 13/05/2011 11:31

i agree sybil

HaughtyChuckle · 13/05/2011 19:05

im still non the wiser

STORM2 · 16/05/2011 04:42

The fact is that the law and authorities are not weighted in favour of an innocent child that can't defend itself against its mother (or father). Sadly it seems the case that if mothers want to kill their children they will in all probability, get away with it. We have to decide whether we want these 'mothers' in our society or not. It seems non of us except Dr Southall are prepared to entertain the notion that this is much more common than we think. If we decide to go down the route of proper investigation of parents then we need to accept the fact that sometimes children will be mistakenly taken away from their mothers. They will, however, still be alive and cared for until they are old enough to defend themselves. Is it not a price worth paying when you look at those evil women trying to kill their own children?

munchausens · 16/05/2011 22:14

What evidence is there for this being so common? Two mentally ill people who were videoed harming their child is no reason for 118 others to lose their children in case they might be mentally ill too. There is no way to defend yourself once accused of msbp and no if you were going to lose your children for a fabricated reason possibly to cover a misdiagnosis you waould not say it was a price worth paying. Many of the families on the programme were still fighting the taking of their children 20 years later. I am sure I would be the same. I cannot believe your comment, not even one child should be taken away from their mother mistakenly it should only be with evidence such as video it is not acceptable in this day and age of technology to remove children without evidence. msbp is the most horrendous accusation and not one that should be made lightly. Why do you think it is common???? I cannot find any evidence that is a common occurance.

DuelingFanjo · 16/05/2011 22:54

Erm, Storm. Did you see the programme?

edam · 16/05/2011 23:16

Very pertinent question, Duelling.

I interviewed Southall once, long before all this hit the headlines. Remember thinking he was clearly passionate about protecting children (think it was to do with a charity for children in Kosovo or something, so long ago I forget) but also clearly believing in his own righteousness - consultant-as-God syndrome. He thinks he is the champion of children and defines anyone who dares to question him as a threat to children.

That came across in the programme - even when there is a family who have been demonstrated to be innocent, where social services told him to bog off, where senior courts told him to bog off, where he was clearly wrong, he still tried to pretend his intervention had benefited in the family and he was responsible for protecting their child. That was clearly a lie - there had been no intervention or action, social services dismissed his claims - but he couldn't bear to be wrong. Even once. Most doctors will admit that they make mistakes - they are only human and fortunately most are recoverable - but Southall thinks he is omniscient. That's dangerous in anyone, ten times worse in a doctor, especially one who works in child protection.

Let's not forget Southall was condemned by the GMC for his ridiculous and unprofessional behaviour in the Sally Clark miscarriage of justice. He rang the police claiming her husband had murdered their baby, after watching a TV documentary. About as evidence-based as someone who 'knows' Diana was murdered because they saw something on Channel 5. He had never met them, had not been involved in the case, had not seen the case papers. As we now know, their baby was indeed a victim of cot death.

JayneMR · 20/05/2011 15:20

I am new herre but i only joined to put your minds at rest....all the children survived, myself and other contacted C4 and they say this...

Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding A VERY DANGEROUS DOCTOR.

The footage was taken from real covert surveillance film going back many years conducted by Police in the UK and US and used in subsequent prosecutions. It has been shown before in news reports and we did preceded the programme with a warning to advise viewers that the programme would contain distressing images. The events were being monitored by the Police and others, and whilst not included in the footage we screened, where such behaviour was seen, an immediate intervention ensued.

So i hope this will help with those dreadful images we all sawe, and the babies were safe, i know its helped me somewhat

Finallygotaroundtoit · 21/05/2011 07:35

Can't find it now but earlier in the week there were some shockingly similar pictures of a young mum in a hospital in America deliberately smothering her 3 month old. She behaved normally and initially denied it until confronted with the evidence.

My point is - Southall's filming showed that mothers don't have to appear 'mad' to harm their own children.And they will deny it. Yes it's rare but not something that can be entirely dismissed either.
I also think there are enough posters on here with sad & abusive childhoods to demonstrate that although parents can appear to the outside world to be doing OK - they can be doing untold damage to DC behind closed doors.

Southall may have come across as arrogant but IMO he remained professional (refusing to breach confidentiality or make personal criticism).

In the Clark case he reported his concerns to the police (something we are all encouraged to do) it is up to the prosecution and defence to either make something out of his concerns or examine them and dismiss accordingly.
Wasn't Clark's conviction found to be 'unsafe' ? I thought the evidence wasn't strong enough to convict -not that she was found not guilty. It's not the same thing

follyfoot · 21/05/2011 07:40

People seem to be under the impression that he remains struck off. Posted this on another thread:

He was reinstated in May 2010, is currently registered and has a licence to practise.

Its very easy to check a Dr's status on the GMC website.

Click on 'check a Dr's registration status'.

Type in the name.

Press search.

Click on 'Dr history'

Its all there and you can do it for any Dr.

edam · 21/05/2011 11:15

folly - he is banned from child protection work.

Finally, he did NOT remain professional. He used confidentiality as an excuse to peddle untruths without having to account for himself. Did you see the family where social services had scoffed at Southall's accusation? Because he insisted the mother of a child with serious allergies had made it up and had MSbP? Even though the allergies were well-documented and some attacks had happened at school, when the mother was not present? The documentary maker asked him about that and he told some dreadful, obvious lies. Which the maker put to the child - now an adult - who said WTF?

His claims about Mr Clark were not professional. It is deeply unprofessional and wrong for someone who had a reputation as an expert, and so whose views carried weight, to accuse someone of being a murderer based on a TV programme, having had no access to the court papers, the case history or ever meeting the man. Sally Clark's child was deprived of her mother not only while the mother was in prison but because that experience left her mother broken as a result of the psychological strain of the horrific treatment meted out to her. She died, prematurely, within a few years of being cleared. And then Southall tried to take away her father, too.

And it's an outrageous slur to claim Sally Clark was guilty. Read up on the case before you dare to attack an innocent woman who is now dead, and can no longer defend herself, FFS. The reason she was wrongly convicted was that Roy Meadows misled the court, claiming three cot deaths = murder. A claim that is a. untrue and b. he had no right to make, not being a statistician. The courts eventually recognised that. It's appalling that anyone continues to peddle lies the poor woman.

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