Jamie's Dream School

[londonone]

20 in a class
No curriculum
TV Cameras

And they still piss around! Maybe people will start to get a real idea about how perhaps some of the students are in fact not vitims but the architects of their own downfall!

Wow. Just wow. What bubble liveth in most of you?

Where is the empathy/sympathy? For whatever reason, it's all gone wrong for them, good for Jamie for showing/trying ways of bringing the disaffected back into the fold, because it applies to an awful lot of kids and speaks volumes about the failures of our education system and societal attitudes.

Better than leaving them cast out because they just don't fit so they can be the underclass of the future. We should never give up on people.

Blame is easier though, huh?

And as for all this "Ooo listen to them speak" bollocks, try wandering about in the wider world for a bit. You lot are the priviledged minority, not the majority.

Starkey, on the other hand, should be spit roasted.

Well said Hullygully .

I think that Henry's reaction to the disappointment of his work was very telling. I would be so interested to know what kind of work he produced for Rolf Harris.

Henry reminds me of students I have taught who seem to think that they know it all. As they know it all already they do not listen. The results are invariably disappointing to them and everyone else.The explanation for this is always someone/something else's fault.

I think that the JO programme highlighted the nature of many teens today and why so many fail. The inability to listen came out so clearly and I think is the single biggest problem. I used to teach MFL and it is impossible to learn another language without listening extensively. Its what all these teenagers did before they ever ventured into producing their first words in their mother tongue.

The other thing that you need if you are to do well at school is to practise skills until you are proficient. What I used to encounter was 'we have done this already'. That is down to the tick box mentality so prevalent in education. So exposure to a skill equates to being able to do it. It obviously does not but many teens believe that to be true. So everything becomes so superficial, which is just as well as they have not listened properly in the first place.

Now I realise that this is not a universal picture, but it is a widespread one.

Yes where on earth did this obsession with 'respect' come from? Teenagers go on and on about it without actually understanding it most of the time.

I used to work with young offenders so most of yesterday's programmes attitudes were very familiar. I know I am repeating what has been said on here already but you know at first thought it would be about teacher bashing. From the first programme it is showing exactly how hard it is to teach, especially kids with problems.

Lots of people think teaching is easy....Starkey failed due to his didactic approach, basically lecturing (which is what he is used to). The lad who he insulted had at some point engaged in a way by showing his muscles when DS was talking about evolution. Yes it was a joke but showed he was listening, to then insult him was rubbish.

Not sure what Jamie is trying to do ultimately. Yes some of these people are inspirational but there is more to teaching than that - how about lesson plans which include appropriately interactive teaching methods, engaging pupils rather than just talking 'at' them etc. Maybe his point is to show that teaching IS difficult.

Can't wait to see how Ally Campbell gets on next week!

couldn't schools use some kind of phone jammer device? Do they exist? I like Rolf. Thought [http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/mar/01/taught-latin-jamies-dream-school?INTCMP=SRCH this] interesting from Mary Beard Latin teacher

www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/mar/01/taught-latin-jamies-dream-school?INTCMP=SRCH link here

Jamie is a saint and so is Hullygully for that matter.

'Starkey, on the other hand, should be spit roasted.'
I have never been a Starkey fan. I do not think what he said was excusable either. However he looked scared and out of his depth to me.

To be faced with a baying mob of teens is actually really scary. I did momentarily feel sorry for him and then I remembered how how hardline his views are and my sympathy ebbed away.

Yes, disaffected students, and teachers who can't 'control' their pupils are equally victims of the target driven culture which just sees them as data in a bid to 'raise standards'. That thinking hasn't worked.

The new primary curriculum that was supposed to be coming in from September, but the coalition scrapped, began to address some of those issues.

Gove's transmission of knowledge model will be a disaster. I also fear that pedagogy is lost (some would say it already pretty much is)as the role of the teacher is devalued by the free schools program.(Which Jamie is just an advert for)

Thingumy,have you threatened to go into class with your child,until they can be polite to teacher.They fear humiliation at this age.I'm no expert,but thats what I would say I was doing.

HAH! sucked-in, all of you.

forget the school element, this is about getting huge egos in a room with a bunch of people who don't give a crap and seeing them deflate. starkey (who does better in the second ep btw) and winston are known for being awful to work with, i presume Alistair Campbell also etc etc

it's a nice idea, the school thing, but all it is doing in tv terms is expanding on the most successful part of Jamie's Dinners ie watching a celeb get treated like crap by schoolkids... with the offer of some kind of redemption for both and a joyous resolution.

aitch, definitely. What worries me is at the resolution it will be all "see, any monkey CAN teach, now lets sack a few BEds and open some lovely free schools" And the myth of the insprirational teacher, who doesn't need to understand pedegogy because 'its all in the personality innit' persists.

You see it so often on here: If only the teachers were more forceful or assertive There wouldn't be a discipline problem in schools. IE Individual teachers' personality shortcomings are to blame.

Every single parent I know who is happy with their DC's non-selective secondary school says exactly the same thing-

The head is strict and rules are followed.

My DDs comprehensive has one rule-All adults and pupils must respect each other and all property.

If anyone breaks this rule everyone knows the consequenses, ranging from a verbal warning to removal from classroom, then for serial/serious rule breaking isolation.
This rule also encompasses mobiles-anyone seen using them in a class is seen to be disrepectful to the teacher and other students and the phone is confiscated until the end of the week.

And this school is not selective and is not full of middle class children. A large proportion get free school meals.

I really do not understand why this very simple way of managing a school is not implemented in every school in the country-tomorrow if possible! Every child deserves to be given a chance of a good education. If they are allowed to do what the hell they like, they will do. It isn't rocket science.

'You see it so often on here: If only the teachers were more forceful or assertive There wouldn't be a discipline problem in schools. IE Individual teachers' personality shortcomings are to blame.'

What you also see is the reaction on here when a teacher is more forceful or assertive. Parents straight into school. Its fine for everyone else's children but their's always have a legitimate reason for poor behaviour.It takes a brave HT to stand up parents. Even if they appear to support the teacher. The reality is that the teacher is threatened of diciplinary action against them.

The teacher then faced with a situation where common sense would tell them that they need to be assertive or forceful, choose to placate the offender(s). Ultimately the need to pay the mortgage and not live on a knife edge becomes more important.

Yes indeed. I couldn't agree more, Rennie. Teachers and chn are equally victims of a system which doesn't presently work. They are also blamed in equal measure for the failings of the system they are victims of.
Some would say it needs more discipline, rote learning, whizz bang set pieces (like eg Winston's dissection) based on the 'personality' of an effective (individual) teacher, etc.

Many presently in the teaching profession (and ed research) would disagree and say that what is needed is the space to teach and learn how to learn and become engaged, be flexible, make connections, persevere etc.

"It takes a brave HT to stand up to parents"

It's their job to stand up to parents!

How many parents have ever sued a HT for being reasonable, and won? Erm about 0 I would expect.

When we went to the open evening at my DDs secondary, the HT gave a speech.

She told everyone the behaviour standards expected at the school. She then said "Any Parent who thinks their child is more special than any other child at this school, who thinks the rules and standards expected are there for eveyone to follow, except their child, please find another school for your child. This is not the school for you or your child."

I felt like standing up and giving her a round of applause! As I posted earlier, it really isn't rocket science. It's about expectations and standards and insisting that everyone follows them. If a parent is made aware of this before the child starts scool, they can't they say "how dare you say/do that to my child"

I'm pleased that it has worked out for your dc, Quick, but I think that is an example of the cult of the individual, combined with a supportive catchment. Out of interest, how many students get excluded and where do they end up?

Unfortunately the culture is that schools are businesses and parents are the customers, and the customer is always right. Heads need to maintain their numbers and their reputation,(falling roles=very bad and vicious circle) and thats why parents are so often placated.

arrgghh rolls

Rennie - This listening thing - how do you get them to (re)start listening once they've given up? This is my DS's biggest problem but I think he stopped listening in about yr 7 because it was all so boring (he is very bright, but also quiet & not prepared to stand out). He also refuses to ask for help when he needs it, again seems to think this is a mark of failure, when it is simply the way we learn but how to change these ingrained habits?

Yellow I have already posted that there are a large proportion of free school meals at the school. There have beenabout 2 expulsions in the past 7 years.

There are cases of drugs/fights/bullying ect. But they are few and far between and they are dealt with very quickly. The head actually calls the police if drugs are found.

I really think you have a deafeatest attitude. The customer is not always right, and any HT who believes that should be sacked.

I also disagree that the school is "a cult of the individual" It is the exact opposite!! The HT believes the rules are for everyone, there are no exceptions because a particular parent believes their child is excempt. Its just like that in the real world. Are we allowed to say to a policeman "I can do what I like, the rules don't apply to me". Of course not.

If schools don't instil this they are failing the children.

Quick: I'm trying to explain some of the forces working against heads in other schools. i think your school isvery lucky, the parents (like yourself) are obviously very supportive. The head seems a strong personality (thats what I meant by the cult of the individual- the head's charisma or whatever, not that the school was individualistic)But it is still true to say that government policy on schools and education has pushed a business model, under the guise of choice and driven by league tables, that leads some parents to behave like customers. Heads will not want to lose their customers, funding and reputation.

Quick that HT sounds fab. Sadly she is in a minority of school managers who are not more ready to capitulate to difficult parents and their difficult offspring than to challenge them. Most headteachers I've come across would spend time smoothing over wrinkles than ironing them out.

Children do not lose their individuality by being asked to buckle down and toe the line for 5 hours a day. Instead they learn how to get along in groups, recognise that their needs and desires do not trump everyone else's and generally become better citizens. All too often teachers are confronted by parents who feel that their child deserves special treatment for xyz reason. The reality is that most are perfectly able to behave reasonably if placed in correct atmosphere- "no nonsense, no there really are no exceptions". Otherwise all teachers are doing on a daily basis is renegotiating the rules on a case by case basis with every pupil who cares to challenge them- that is what is so wearing and counterproductive.

Jamie fing. Its a 7 episode series. The plan will be to get a result at the end. How contrived is it all? Very, I suspect. (it would be more interesting to be shown what is going on behind the scenes. ) cheers "Gabby"

Duchesse she is fab! The children and parents respect her very much.

Yellow-I need to say again, we are not in a middle class area-yes a lot of the parents are supportive, but that is because they are given the ground rules before the children start. It is expected they will be supportive. However there are plenty who don't give a damn and don't give their children support, but the children are in a school where they are expected to buckle down to work.

In my opinion it doesn't matter how much money you put into a school or what the curriculum is, unless the atmosphere is one where the children are expected to learn and is calm and safe-they never will learn anything.