Is Katherine Howard going to get the chop on the Tudors tonight?

[darleneconnor]

She really isn't being very kindly portrayed in this series is she?

I am going to miss the series when it is over. I dont see why they cant continue on.

I heard the production company are making a series about the Borgias.

Alison Weir has written a lot on the period and I find her very, very readable.

here

The book on the six wives is very good.

'Similarly, Elizabeth was reluctant to order the execution of MaryQOS.'

hence, why she kept her prisoner for so long. she was an annointed queen, like Elizabeth, so Elizabeth realised this put her in quite a predicament, as she was an annointed queen herself.

if you're in london, Mary Stewart's signed death warrant is on display in the British Library. there has been some suggestion that it was slipped into a pile of papers Elizabeth's secretary put before her to sign, but it cannot be ascertained for sure.

But isn't it brilliant that we still have a monarchy, eh?

If I were Kate Middleton's mother I'd be very very wary of my daughter marrying into that lot...

Still, looking forward to seeing her in a fabulous dress...

There are loads of books about the tudors!

Antonia Fraser, David Starkey (hate the man), Jean Plaidy wrote a lot of fiction, as did Anna Whitelock.

my son is obsessed with henry viii atm and makes little axemen out of lego chopping off heads

I wouldn't recommend David Starkey. Misogynistic twat imo.

Henry turned into a real tyrant whose own daughter felt, quite rightly, that her life was at risk from her father.

His father was very miserly, but Henry VIII went and blued the lot.

Anne of Cleves was willing to do what he wanted because her brother was an even bigger tyrant to whom she did not wish to go back.

Some of these stories are very sad. My understanding of Katherine Howard was that she was very young when she married Henry, who was much older than she was and could hardly walk due to health problems. So she befriended all the younger members of the court leading to her downfall.

I wonder whether those marriages ever had any real love in them given that unions were most often arranged politically. So it's no wonder infidelities occurred.

Political marriages still featured affection though there was also the potential for total antipathy. Henry and Catherine of Aragon were very loving in their early life together though neither had any choice about the marriage.

Katherine of Aaragon was married to Henry's brother first though.
Hadn't Henry fallen in love with her when he and his father travelled to (Dover?) welcome and greet her to the country...............?
Then a while later (was it just months) when the brother died, Henry married her.
Is it not thought that when her and Henry first had sex, she made a cut on the base of her foot to show blood on the bedsheets??????? Or have I picked that up from fiction (can't remember now)

'Hadn't Henry fallen in love with her when he and his father travelled to (Dover?) welcome and greet her to the country...............?
Then a while later (was it just months) when the brother died, Henry married her.'

No. He would have been about 10 at that time. She was older than Henry by about 5 years.

Yes, she was married to his elder brother, Arthur, first. Arthur was always weak and sickly and died months after their wedding.

Catherine, who was very religious, swore many many times on her immortal soul, the Bible, what have you that the marriage was never consummated.

Once Arthur died, however, Henry VII was quite hesitant to send her back to her father, however, because it meant he'd also have to give back the bulk of her dowry.

So that's where the plan came about to marry her to Henry.

It required special papal dispensation, because the Bible forbade marrying one's brother's wife, but that was arranged because the Pope was related to the Spanish royal family.

Guacamole - there are lots of good books around about the Tudors.
I agree with Northernlurker and darlene that David Starkey is not the best, although he does know his stuff and his research is exceptional.

I also like Alison Weir, I'm currently reading "The Children of England" by her which is about Edward, Mary, Lady Jane Grey and Elizabeth and is more in depth about their personal lives and relationships rather than the basic historical facts of their reigns.
"Lady Jane Grey" by Alison Plowden is terrific as is anything by Joanna Denny in my opinion. I read "Katherine Howard - A Tudor Conspiracy" by her quite recently.

If you prefer historical fiction then Philippa Gregory is worth a look (she also has a great website where you can enter into historical debate) and also Brandy Purdy an American Author has written "Vengeance is Mine" which is about Anne Boleyn, Jane Rochford and Katherine Howard.

She conceived very very shortly after her marriage to Henry, which adds weight to her assertion that she was still a virgin.

In fact, she did not appear to have problems conceiving, it's just that none of her children besides Mary lived very long.

Electra, Katherine's birth date was either 1521 or 1525. So at best Henry was 30 years older than her.

Unlike some historians I do have some sympathy for her. Just read the letter I linked to. She seemed so awkward and inarticulate. Definitely not as strong a personality as some of the other Queens. I thought the actress that portrayed her was very empathetic to the role and although the history is so wrong it hurts she did seem to bring the character in the letter to life.

I do wish they would do something, maybe another up-to-date film on Lady Jane Grey. There was a tragic figure. Again the film with Helena Bonham Carter isn't exactly true to the proper history. I always found the painting by Delaroche very haunting.

I think Lady Jane is very much diminished by the 'tragedy' aspect. She was a significant intellectual figure of her age with huge potential - but all we see is her groping in the dark for the block.

And her two sisters met sad, premature ends as well.

It required special papal dispensation, because the Bible forbade marrying one's brother's wife, but that was arranged because the Pope was related to the Spanish royal family.

Yes and Henry then used that very same reason to have the marriage annulled didn't he ? Funny how he forgot about that small detail until he met Anne Boleyn
Mind you the fact he'd also had a relationship with Mary Boleyn who had one (possibly two) children by him later gave him reason to have that marriage annulled just before her execution.
Henry claimed his marriage to Anne was never legal either which begs the question how could she be executed for adultery if she was never legally married to him in the first place!

Belt and braces I think!

Thank you for the recommendations...

And then he later re-legitimised Elizabeth, which is maybe a sign that he had some remorse for what he'd done to her Mum.

More likely a recognition that he had one son - at that point already looking unhealthy then his elder daughter whose life he had comprehencively screwed up and who was childless and then this bright and healthy daughter who might at least marry somebody useful!

I found the execution scenes very hard to watch, especially Dereham's. In fact I could barely watch and had a cushion in front of my face!

Gruesome.

I skyplused it and fast forwarded that bit!

Do you think he would have wanted her to get married, though and have the English throne controlled by her (probably foreign) husband?

Even when Mary was legitimate she still didnt get married until after she became Regent.