Eastenders Baby Death Storyline

[deemented]

Once again, no one can live happily ever after

Ronnie's baby James, dies and she puts his body in Kat and Alfies son's crib, and steals their baby boy, Tommy.

Why oh why oh why do scriptwriters insist on portraying bereaved parents - mothers especially - as mad and deranged??? Maybe it's because they can't begin to imagine how awful the death of a child is, but really, whilst we are mad with grief, it is our own child that we want back, not someone else's stolen child. When are scriptwriters ever going to understand that?

Still, it'll be a riveting watch, no doubt.

Saw an old episode of Heartbeat last week.

A baby was snatched from it's pram outside a shop by a woman who was unable to have her own baby.

Same story line. The difference is that EE is so bloody stupid altogether.

I am sure there were lots of people upset by the incest storylines. I am sure people complained. What is your point?

When did it become ridiculous to complain about things that upset/offend?

what a bunch of muddle headed sillies we are. We should get back to our knitting and not worry our empty heads about things we cannot change

But I don't understand (aside from the frankly stupid baby-snatching) why there were so many silly things - leaving the baby, no monitor etc. I mean, surely a lot of the people working on the programme have children (I'm pretty sure the two 'new mother' actresses do, for a start) why didn't anyone pick up on those?

I'd rather they'd just done the SIDS in a sensitive and accurate way, that actually informed/taught people something rather than sweeping it to one side for a very strange plot that nobody likes.

No not the same. being barren and burying your child is not the same.

kidnapping a baby it different to swapping a dead baby for a live one.

besides the point thought.

Same storyline on Doctors a few weeks back.

Ironically it was aired the day i got a reply about the complaint I had made about the previous storyline,

about a deranged bereaved mother who had used her DD's ashes as confetti at her ex's wedding.

I felt almost sorry for the bloke who replied
blah blah sensitive issues, blah blah , all atepts made at blah blah, assure you that blah blah.

Same old bollocks, same old lazy tripe.

If its all the same to those who dont give a toss (as is your right) I WILL continue to complain and kick up fuss when I and my friends are portrayed as total fucking loons because we have lost our children.

If thats ok.

I think kidnapping another baby/using ashes etc would feel like a betrayal to the baby/child that you had lost (in rl) rather than a substitute.

This is what seems to be being portrayed to me.

i agree totally with the posts here. Took one look at EE and guessed storyline was death of baby and turned off immediately. EE too depressing normally, never mind at the moment!

Too awful to even consider never mind watch for 'entertainment". Sincere wishes to anyone going through anything similar.

The point is that we can always turn the TV off. It becomes ridiculous when we are up to page 12 talking about a trashy TV show.

If this trash has this effect on adults, imagine how the small children, teens and babies who are subjected to TV news, video games, x box violent games feel.

Kathsmum has got it right. Yes you feel for anyone who has been through these terrible things but the bottom line is:

IT'S NOT REAL SO TURN THE TV OF.

I agree with most of the posts here. I watched last night and then afterwards submitted an online complaint to the BBC (something I have never done before).

I have been watching EE for years. I have DCs, but thankfully have zero personal experience of SIDS or stillbirth or neonatal death either family or friends. I think it is good to highlight cot death to raise awareness, but only if somewhere woven into the storyline is useful factual information on reducing risks. I think the baby swap element is truely offensive and sick. Yes EE is not real life blah blah blah, but the death of a newborn is an extremely sensitive subject and portraying grieving mothers in this way is pretty rotten.

The cynical bit of me thinks that the BBC will be really happy with all the uproar over this, though, as it generates more attention for EE and potentially draws in more viewers to see what all the fuss is about .

I think FSID have made a big error in getting involved at all, even though they had nothing to do with the swap storyline. The BBC are constantly mentioning their consultations with them, and whilst it raises their profile, it doesn't really reflect well to be associated with this nonsense.

Another viewer lost here.

As an angel mummy I'm not sure what's more insulting, the show or some of the comments on here.

I think everyone else has said everything I wanted to.

I lost my baby because she was just born too early, it was decided she was too small to mess about with so she died in my arms instead of in an incubator with tubes, wires and monitors. When I was pregnant again I remember shouting "I don't want this baby! I just want my baby back" It took me a long time to realise that this was as much my baby as my angel baby and that loving another baby wasn't going to take anything away from her.

It's a very grown up reality I live with every day.

I've had my share of stupid comments too, I try to take them as they're meant rather than the words because on the whole I know people just don't have the right words and I'm just glad they said something rather than ignored me. Although one guy (who was chasing me at the time despite the fact I was in a relationship) cornered me in the kitchen at work and started asking loads of questions, along the lines of "My friend had an abortion and they did... did you have to have..." eventually I did snap at him "NO because I didn't have an abortion! I've just lost my baby!" (next time I saw him he ran in the opposite direction looking terrified, I believe someone had a "word" with him)

'It's not real so turn the TV off' can be used to justify any racist, homophobic, sexist, violent, abusive, hateful, bigoted nonsense - but it isn't. We apply standards of decency to what is shown on mainstream television. This storyline isn't 'real' - isn't even based in 'real' - but Eastenders are pretending that it is - that it could happen, that it's been supported by relevant charities - and that's what is so horrible about this because they are playing both sides. Claiming to be realistic but defended by the fact that it's not 'real.' It's a real shame people are falling for it. It's a horrible and hurtful storyline and the producers have made a big mistake.

Can someone cleverer than me figure out if anf how it breaches the OFCOM CODE? If it does I'll complain to them, but their remit seems quite limited . I wonder if consistently portraying grieving mothers as unhinged (as someone above described in Doctors and other recent series) would actually amount to gender discrimination?? Or maybe it is captured under 'offensive', though it seems rather narrowly defined by OFCOM.

From the BBC Editorial guidelines "The BBC aims to reflect the world as it is, including all aspects of the human experience and the realities of the natural world. In doing so, we balance our right to broadcast innovative and challenging content, appropriate to each of our services, with our responsibility to protect the vulnerable and avoid unjustifiable offence."

Is dramatic effect sufficient justification for this offensive swapping storyline? Don't grieving parents count as vulnerable?

For a start

"the degree of harm or offence likely to be caused by the inclusion of any particular sort of material in programmes generally or programmes of a particular description; "

"the effect of the material on viewers or listeners who may come across it unawares."

APPLE your words are so vital....and made me think.

Its not the death of the child in EE - its the actual swap of the child. I lost two of my four sons....I didn't want to swap them for another child.............I JUST WANTED THEM AT HOME WITH ME xxxxx

I don't watch EE but I have complained.

Since my DS was stillborn I can't hold another baby without someone commenting "that must be so hard I don't know how you can do it" or having to witness the raised eyebrows and worried glances of 'friends' over my head and behind my back. The subtext always being, not "is nancy ok" but rather "is nancy going to do something stupid".

The answer is not. Honestly I couldn't care less about your baby. I hold him/her because that is the socially acceptable thing to do. The alternative is to be the "nutter who wont hold a baby" as opposed to "the nutter who might snatch a baby".

But your baby is yours. He doesn't look like my baby, or smell like my baby. Why would you be so arrogant as to assume I would want him. I just want mine.

I remember when Holby City killed off yet another baby and I swore it off. Swore off EE a few years ago when an episode was based around Dot losing her frying pan or something like that. Ridiculous. I can understand why writers put in these storylines, but really, I think they need to talk to some real life bereved parents before writing their scripts in future.

Excellent posts confuddled northern and nancy

inki I'm sure you would feel differently if you were part of a group of people who were being misrepresented. Bereaved mother's are maginalised enough without influencial programmes like EE adding to the problem instead of educating. So you don't come across as very 'feeling' at all - dismissive actually.

nancy my DD Belle died 6 months ago, I come into the 'nutter' who won't hold a baby catergory. Because I don't have the courage or strength to deal with the raised eyebrows, glaces and interest from others waiting to see how I react by my doing so, but also have absolutely no interest whatsoever in cooing over somebody elses newborn. as I said further up, the last baby I held was my own and it is staying that way until another of our own comes along. I don't give a monkey's what is socially acceptable. I completely agree with what you said regarding the subtext of lots of things people say to us.

I found this story line totally saddening the other night.

Very upset when Ronnie was craddling James (am 16wks PG and had terrible obsession when DC was born with leaving him sleep and checking all the time).

But thinking back to just after the births - Ronnie was walking around with her new pram showing off her one day old newborn looking like she'd just left the office - not given birth! I mean I left the house 5 days after with DC in a sling and people were at that..

Wouldn't it be nice if we could have had a really realistic birth in ER style - and a happy ending for once?

I think the writers are just desperate for new material - sat in their writer's room in July last year "what can happen this Christmas??" "Oh I know let's give Ronnie have even more shit in her life".

My OH and I can almost predict the lines sometimes.

EE you need some NEW talent!!!

cazandbelle I'm sorry I think you neatly illustrate the point that "we", that is everyone who has ever lost a child, are all different not some homogenous mass of people who all react in the same way and can be easily pigeon holed. Yet for most of us that is our experience. We are treated in a certain way and it is very difficult to break free of the stigma of losing a child.

The one thing bereaved mothers do have in common is that evry single one I have met over 16 months has been angered by the way in which people treat them: people don't know what to say, they say the worng, often horribly inappropriate things. MN is full of threads along the lines of "my friend has lost a baby - what can I do/what shall I say". We (as a society) will talk about sex toys and anal sex, how much we earn, or what benefits we can claim. We will talk about and broadcast our most intimate thoughts but God forbid we might talk about the death of a child. It really is the last taboo.

The fact is some people have babies that die. It is shit. More shit than most people care to imagine. You can't dress it up, or make it anymore dramatic than it is. Why add farce to horror? EE has done woman such a diservice with this story line.

I don;t watch television but I have been called by soap writers/assistants to ask about particular issues (in my professional area) and whether XYZ proposed story line is correct. I think they generally try to get to quite a lot of effort to come up with things that are feasible but perhaps not here although it's not unknown. There was a woman in South American who kidnapped a pregnant woman at 8 months and slit open her tummy and took out the baby and I think she'd had ababy who had died or really wanted one.

What has really upset me about this storyline as well as the obvious, is that as far as I am aware the "babyswap" story line was supposed to run for most of this year for maximum impact!!!! I'm not sure if this timescale has changed but this particular misery being dragged out until next Christmas is really too much but I may be wrong or as I said the timings may have changed.