How cross would you be?

[mumto3boys]

This is linked to my thread about chores, also started today, and to my other threads previously about DS1.

To cut a long story short, he is 13, year 8. It has come to light that his school work is appalling and, mortifyingly for us, he is rude and arrogant to teachers.

We had him put on report and there was some improvement, altho a long way to go.

He had end of year exams and we were very pleased with how he revised (with some pressure from us). I decided to reward him for this and told him we were proud of the work he had put in and said we would treat him to the cinema if he wanted to go with some friends.

He happily accepted and later asked if he could have a sleepover that night. His behaviour had been much better so we agreed.

I gave him a tenner for the cinema, plus bus fare home and dropped him in town. I specifically said that the money was only for cinema and if he and his friends decided not to go, it was not his to spend (I said this as I know that un less I specifically cover everything he must not do, he will do it and claim he didn't realise!!)

Whilst he was out I went to sign his homework diary and found a detention slip from the day before which he had deliberately not told me about as he knew I would cancel the sleepover. I called him and realised he was in the arcades, not the cinema. He insisted he had already been - it was a few hours later as they were also going to go swimming, which is free. I attempted to cancel the sleepover but he insisted that his friend did not have a key and his parent had gone to work. I didn't entirely believe him but could not prove otherwise.

I questioned about the cinema and he insisted they had been, his friend looked most uncomfortable and I suspected he was lying.

We all watched the footie and I provided dinner etc for his friends. I had also bought doritos etc and gave them with strict instructions that they were not to be eaten in his newly decorated bedroom.

The next morning I found that the doritos had been eaten in the bedroom.

Once the friends had gone I also quizzed him on the cinema nd he admitted they hadn't been and he had basically spent my money on crap, sweets, fizzy drinks etc. When I got cross he said 'well it was my money to enjoy myself, so I did'.

When questioned on the doritos he just said 'well were were hungry'.

He really doesn't think he's done wrong and seems to think rules only apply until they don't suit him, then he can do as he pleases.

Due to all this I grounded him for a week and took his xbox away, as this has been linked to school behaviour. He will also have to pay back the £10 when he gets his pocket money. During this he called me a fucking bitch under his breath - something I never thought he would dare do. At this point I marched him to his room as I was not sure I could controol myself.

He is now grounded for a month, no phone, xbox, pc for the same period. Grounding also includes no friends round.

The thing is he is genuinely shocked that I am so cross about the money, even though I todl him it was for cinema only - and also the doritos thing.

The detention he knew he was in big trouble for and also the swearing. We're 5 days in a and the punishemnts are hurting now.

So did I do it right and would you have done the same?

To be honest (in hindsight all too easy to say) i qwould have sent the kids home and cancelled the day's treats as soon as I found out about the detention etc.

You do need to keep your ground with this one - it may seem harsh but you need to be consistent.

You remember when he was a toddler and pissing you off with defiance and pushing boundaries - this is pretty much the same!

Yes I have also said he will not get the rest of the pocket money.

Apparently I can't do that and am making rules up as I go along, which makes me more determined to stick to it.

I'm so shocked at his behaviour. He's always been a bit of a pain at school but the school always said it was because he was bright etc, but he never used to have this awful atiitude.

I am dreading the school report too

I think a month is a very long time to be grounded for with no xbox and no friends. I agree there should be punishments but for a reasonable timescale - 10 days for the £10 maybe? I would also make him pay back the money.

Yes, you did the right thing and you need to stand your ground.

Is there any chance he looked shocked because he realised he couldn't get round you?

I have found that i have had to be much more explicit with dd as she's got older as she's constantly trying to find loopholes
so i say "do this with the money and only this and if you do different you will be grounded".

well, i do think a month is quite long but i realise that he has been misbehaving for quite a while so i understand that you need to convey to him how serious his behaviour is.

anyway, you have given the punishment now and it is important that you see it through for the whole month. you cant let him off because otherwise he will assume you always will.

I agree andlipstick too but we have tried less and he just rides out the week or whatever and then back to normal. He's had NINE after school detentions in year 8, this does not include being kept in at lunch or break which I am not informed about.

I am more cross because I specifically said not to spend the money on anything but the cinema and snacks for the cinema and he completely ignored me and spent every penny!! A bag of chips I wouldn't have minded but he didn't even bring anything home, it was all sweets and crap and probably arcades.

The punishment escalated massively when he called me a fucking bitch as I am really not having that and want it to be a first and last.

Altho I do agree its probably too long we need a big change here, its not a one off bad behaviour but constant lying, poor behaviour at school etc.

Once he is incredibly bored I will start giving out chores to do I think, he will probably be happy for something to do

Yes I meant to say about the sleepover. The other boy lives in the next town and I do not know his parents. He was at his dads that weekend and my DS said that the boy did not have a key to get in. I didn't 100% believe him but what do you do in that situation? I couldn't risk a 13 year od with nowhere to go.

I suspected I was being duped but couldn't see a way out. Any ideas?

This is a tricky one. My DS1 (I also have 3) was difficult in yr7. My older and wiser sister used to tell me that you can't live their life for them & that you cannot change them.

However, they do have to learn that when they want something (in this case money, food, mates over, etc) they have to earn it. Even if the earning is only through respect & trust.

You have to stick to your punishment but I think you also need to find a time when you are not both angry to sit and have a grown up talk about 'consequences'.

My DS1 is still the one who tries my patience the most but I have made it clear to him that the most important thing in his life is school and that if he gets that right I will make sure the rest of his life is more the way he would like it. He is now yr 9 and this week has reported A's and A* grades in some end of year tests.

So my other advice would be to pick your fights - you can't win them all!!

I think you're being a bit harsh tbh.

1. You were prepared to spend £10 on him having a treat. What difference does it make to you whether it's cinema or arcade?

1. Peer pressure is massive at this age. His friends may well have said there was nothing they wanted to see at the cinema, how about doing something else.

1. The doritos thing, yes I know it's annoying but if they were all watching tv in his room the normal thing would have been to have the snacks at that time, surely?

1. He's been doing generally a lot better. He got a detention slip which is not the end of the world (my ds gets them for not tucking his shirt in or being 5 mins late for school, hardly the crimes of the century).

I think the harder you are on your son the more he will rebel and the less communication you'll have with him.

agree with you mumblechum

My oldest boys are older now so am speaking having come out the other side so to speak.
Ds2 was a nightmare for his teachers at school (gifted and bored) and tbh even when he tried to behave well his reputation preceded him and he got detentions anyway because it was assumed he had something to do with whatever happened.So knowing that I would want details of the reason for the detention before any consequences at home.
The money given for his hard work was technically his so if he chose to do something different then I think it was his choice tbh.
The Doritos I don't really see the harm, his room his choice I would say so long as you let him know he is responsible for keeping his room clean and tidy.
The swearing I wouldn't tolerate but would perhaps understand because he felt very hard done by and by my reasoning probably rightly so.
The punishment is way too harsh and will lead to resentment and will just make him more determined not to get caught next time.
I think how you handle them as teens can make or break a relationship and I am glad that I persevered in keeping the lines of communication open and tried my best to trust them and treat them as almost adults.
Ds2 is now 21 and absolutely delightful and we are very close. We laugh now about some of his exploits like hacking into the school computer system, putting ICT teachers car on ebay and lots more.
He says now that the fact that I could always see good in him even when he was in trouble helped,that when I said I was disappointed in him hurt more than any number of groundings and punishments would have and that when he was in trouble he knew he could always tell me.
Try not to make your relayionship a battleground would be my advice and try talking and listening first before any sanctions it worked for us.

Feel for you greatly - who'd be a mum ?
My DS is like this - wriggles his way out of things ,always got an answer .
But I'm beginning to think it's my overreaction that is driving him this way.
The shock does takes the ground out from under your feet whwn you discover something like this ....
but agree with mumblechum and others - bit harsh, it is annoying that they eat crap ,but if he'd spent the £10 on roasted veg and coucous ,would that be better?
I think a month is honestly too long .

We went on like this for ages until we realised that we had to sort out how we were going to react before the event ever happened. This is what we try to do now.

Step 1. In response to any bad/unacceptable behaviour at home/school we first of all say very calmly we are not at all happy with the behaviour and we are going to think about it and we think he should think about it too and then we are going to sit down and talk about it. We part company at this stage to let feelings of anger/revenge/disappointment subside.

Step 2. We point out in a reasonable and calm way what it is specifically that we have taken offence to and ask ds to acknowledge how we feel about it.

Step 3. We listen to his views and opinions and try to see things from his side.

Step 4. We determine which is the most offensive part of the behaviour and explain the consequences of such behaviour (grounding/stop pocket money/xbox etc)

Step 5. We get ds to acknowledge why there has to be a punishment and to apologise for his behaviour.

Step 6. We make up and have a hug. The punishment is delivered and everyone is happy.

Then we go the same thing the following week ... and the next .....and the next

I agree with those who have said that they think you're over-reacted a bit, sorry.

The money thing - when I think back to the rubbish I used to spend my dinner money on, I think him spending it on rubbish rather than the cinema is pretty much to be expected.

So - the things he's done wrong are:

• spent money on crap
• got a detention slip after the treat was awarded
• made a bit of a mess in his room
• sworn because he thought he was being treated unfairly. I understand why he is quite surprised about the money and the crisps things leading to massive punishment.

I think the only one I see as a big 'crime' here is the swearing.

I totally disagree with grounding as a punishment and, even if I didn't, I think a month is way too long.

I'd be wanting a long sit down and chat with him about how he can resolve all this and how certain expectations met might lead to a certain level of relenting on your side.

Otherwise, what punishments will you have left when he comes home drunk and throws up on the bedroom floor (or whatever!).

I have two teenagers and am super-strict but I hope I'd go for more discussion and less punishment over something like this.

I agree with other posters you did over react a bit. You gave him £10 for a treat. If I gave my girls money at that age for a treat I would not mindc if they spent it in the cine,a or else where.
It's normal for teenages to eat rubbish on sleepovers.
Yes he should have told you about the detention and he should not swear at you. So yes punish fr those things but not to the extent of grounding him for a month and basically haveing nothing to do. I know it's dificult to back down now but could you get him to earn his things back and kesson the grounding by behaving well and perhaps helping you with some tasks

We follow very much the same method as Steppy.

The time to think about it has really helped us with DS1 (13)

We also get him to say what he thinks an appropriate punishment is and he is often more harsh than we would be.

I agree that you have been a bit OTT here, what are you going to do next if he misbehaves? I don't think that you have left yourself many choices to further punishment; it is highly likely that he is going to try pushing some more buttons with you out of boredom/rebellion over the next month and you have already taken everything off him and grounded him.

Hi OP
I think in your position the two things which would have offended me the most were being lied to and being sworn at. I wouldnt tolerate either of these.

For me being lied to is a loss of trust. How can you trust him next time to be where he has said, to do what he has said.

Being sworn at is just plain offensive. There is no excuse.

I think the hardest lesson any child has to learn is that sometimes 'sorry' isnt enough.

In my experience (limited at the moment I admit to one teen DC) the best place to talk is in the car, just you and DC. There's no eye contact and you are both looking at the road. This could be used as an opportunity to talk about what happened. You can explain how you feel and DC can explain his side if he wants to.

Keep strong. I think that you are right to try to address the behaviour.

If you decide that grounding for a month is a bit too long, could you allow him to earn back privileges? This could be both by a certain period of good behaviour, or by doing a certain amount of helping around the place.

DS1 earned a week off his grounding by going and sorting out a job at a local charity shop for his DofE - something he would never've got off his backside to do otherwise.

Having been there, done that.. got the T shirt (and still wearing it ..:D) you have my sympathy...

BUT...

You are punishing retrospectively..it's hardly likely to encourage him to stick at trying harder ..

The swearing is a horrible thing.. but not life threatening and to be frank, not surprising ( perfectly decent teens do swear and under stress it will come out eventually).. perfectly reasonable to sanction that but a MONTHS grounding for his crimes?

Seriously if you are grounding him for a month for mis spending a tenner, eating doritos in his room and possibly lying about the sleepover, then when serious teen issues crop up in a few years (and they always do) , where do you go from there? Being uber strict now won't prevent him coming home totally legless when he's 15 (seems to be the peak age ) and by being inflexible you may shut down the lines of communication, which would be a sad thing.

When you have a chance,,TALK to him.. explain that you are disappointed with his choice to use the money you gave him unwisely, that swearing upsets you and that lying makes you feel he will have to earn back your trust.. and ask him how he intends to make amends.. give him the chance to make things right, instead of taking away things he enjoys..

I totally agree with SuzieHM.. car time is a great time to talk.. most of my most important conversations with my teens have been while I'm driving with them..singly...

I have 4 teens and my older DS has been particularly tricky.. worst aged 13-15..you name it we have been thro it.. but we found that treating him as a reasonable human being rather than punishing him, had far better results and at 17 he is beginning to turn into a human.....

It's a steep learning curve for teens..and parents... hang in there

I agree with those saying you were too harsh. Why wasn't he allowed to go to the arcades? Sounds like a typical thing for teenage boys to do, including the eating of junk food. Obviously it's bad that he lied to you, but what if his friends didn't want to go to the cinema? Would you have expected him to go by himself, or home? Seems like he lied because he knew he'd be in big trouble - he owned up once his friends though - didn't want to look like a whoos in front of them? Also, if the idea was to give him a treat for doing well in his exams, why does he need to pay you back? He still did well in his exams, and I think your reaction to his detention should be separate from this treat. Swearing is also bad, but can see why he would think you were being unfair and maybe over restrictive.

I know how exasperating teens are though and I expect you'll be regretting the detention even more than ds soon enough. Give him a chance to earn it back

A little update

I would say it took roughly a week for me to calm down and we have a long old chat about it all. I know it all seemed very petty but there is a lot of background to this, especially around lying and behaviour at school.

The detention was for being rude to the teacher. Anyways, we have him the chance to earn stuff back and we have seen a big improvement in attitude at home and he has his phone and internet back and is no longer grounded.

But school is another matter . His report isn't great. Only one teacher really praised him, annoyingly music, which I don't think he can take at GCSE as he doesn't play an instrument and isn't interested in starting.

ALL said he doesn't put in much effort, classwork missing, homework not up to scratch, doesn't pay attention etc. Its so frustrating as they say he will scrape C's at GCSE without trying )he hasn't been told this obvioulsy)

At our school reports are given to us personally with the child there by the form tutor. WE also had the head of year who really laid it on the line and threatened him with exclusion. TBH she really laid into him but it's something that if it had been done in juniors, he probably wouldn't be where he is now. It wasn't pleasant and I did feel a little sorry for him but he was mortified and close to tears so am hoping it may have an effect.

I'm willing to bet that he'll pick his socks up now.

My ds had an atrocious yr 8, did virtually no work, was never rude but just couldn't be bothered to do any work because he didn't see the point as no SATS, GCSEs etc.

In yr 9 although the govt had abolished SATS his school did them anyway and he worked his socks off, got brilliant results and got an award for outstanding academic achievement.

If your lad is bright, he will do well when he knows he has to.

Good luck

Sounds like things are getting back on track. Worth remembering with school reports that it takes about a month to get them written, proof read, printed and out to parents, so won't reflect any recent improvement. (I don't have teenage boys of my own, but teach at a secondary comp).

Sounds like he really needs to be sat on because if he thinks there is a chance he can get away with stuff he will (very common in 13yo boys). If I were you I would be talking with the school about very close communication with you next year - could his tutor email/call you if he gets a dentention? Could you link some home reward to merits to encourage him to stop coasting? A weekly email update with rewards for good behaviour or reduced xbox time for poor attitude? It would obviously be great if he could see the error of his ways and aim for A* GCSE's off his own back, but maybe some incentive scheme helps?

Excellent that he responded to the dressing down by head of year though, could be much worse.