How bothered are teenagers about how wealthy their school freinds are?

[LynetteScavo]

I'm asking because we live near to one to the country's "top public schools" who offer scholarships for day pupils from the town.

DH and I had discussed whether we would ever put any of our DC forward for the scholarship, and decided we wouldn't. While we live a comfortable life in a semi in suburbia, with holiday's in Cornwall, we felt surrounding our children with school mates who's parents own several homes, take very nice holidays, and drive very nice cars wouldn't be fair on them. We decided State school, or a nearby independent (where several teenagers from our road attend would be more sensible)

However, a friend who is a single mother, living in a small terraced house in an undesirable part of town, will be sending her DC to this public school in September,(with full scholarship). Her DC was also offered a place at the "outstanding" grammar school.

What do other's think? Will this child have a fabulous education, and not really be bothered that the other student's come from very privileged backgrounds? I asked DS, who is 11, and he said it wouldn't bother him if everybody else came from families with lots more money. (Which is what friend's DC has also said) Do they really understand the implications at 11?
Are DH and I over thinking things?

And the thing about kids getting Bently for birthdays.. really flash presents are considered very uncool and being a posey wanker is not well regarded.

You aren't in the nouveau zone up the M4 or in London, though, pagwatch. It is more restrained trad in your parts...

DS goes to a good Grammar, and most of the pupils come up from Private school. In Yr7 he was amazed at some of their stories (best ever being X was late for school due to a power cut and not being able to get the car out the electric gates!! )

There is a mix however, and he knows he is not the worst off. When a new PS3 game comes out (eg Fifa 10,COD etc) they all just buy it on day one and talk about nothing else. He knows he will have to wait for a birthday/Christmas/spend his own money.

I actually think it was more competitive for DD at the Comprehensive. Girls & designer brands, endless shoes/make up, driving lessons etc etc.

If he can get into a good school, and wants to try, let him.

ActuallyBonsoir I have to confess you are right.
When DS1 was at a different prep school a shortish trip around the M25 we were surrounded by some really pushy sorts whose mums made friends with other parents they viewed as wealthy.They were still the minority though butthe bad ones were bad.

We were living temporarily in a crappy house as we followed provision for DS2. We had a few boys come to tea and then never ask DS1 back when they saw our shoddy semi. Then we moved to our current house and they started asking me out for coffee as if we could wip[e the previous two years and be bestest friends .
But that was not an especially academic school - about 70 in the league tables I think.

Lynette - I think it will depend on the school...

DS1s current school has never been like that. I had clearly wiped all the bad memories...

I went (with a scholarship) to a mid-range boarding school and there was a lot of reverse snobbery against the children of richer families who were seen to be flashy/spoilt/over-indulged etc.
Likewise at university, the richer kids were the subject of a lot of piss-taking.
If the family is secure in their own identity then there's no reason at all why it should be a problem.

As everybody on MN is aware , we have been school hunting for the DSSs this year. Even within Paris intra muros, the level of designer wear, It-Bags, expensive watches etc etc varies wildly from one chic arrondissement to another...

if it is really a "top" school it would be promoting good manners - and it's very bad form to judge by material possessions. Judging by our experience and that of friends/ family the biggest problem actually comes in comprehensive schools. It is the less academically able children who value themselves by their possessions.

What does matter is mainly sporting ability and to alesser extent being able to send your child on school trips. Many of the bright children also excel at sport and if your child doesn't they may struggle at first. Not everyone goes on school trips but they are a bonding experience.

I'd say try it. If at 16 it becomes an issue move them to a state sixth form.

I would agree with you tatt, I work with very disadvantaged kids who seem to think that if you haven't got x or y then you are a nobody. We laugh together as they feel sorry for my kids who don't have x box, playstation 3 etc. They call me mum though even though they think I live in the stone age

tatt, the manners thing is a good point, I hadn't thought of that. Whenever I've had an encounter with the pupils of this school their manners have been astonishingly admirable.

And I suppose if the vast majority are boarders, they won't have much occasion to go to her house. Also, almost all of the children of the school's teachers attend the school, (after attending the same state school as my DC), so not everybody's parents have drive a Bentley.

DH was in exactly this position. he & his older brother won scholarships to their local independent school (in top 10 for academic results in the country) neither of them made any friendships that have stood the test of time. Neither of them felt able to bring any friends home due to embarrassment at their impoverished home circumstances. they had to divide their lives completely in two, be one person at school, another at home. For this reason we would NEVER send any of our children private.

Incidentally we now live behind the same very popular independent school; and though the point about their manners is valid the kids there are all very arrogant - their manners somehow tarnished for me - they are clearly learned rather than innate. That public school charm just makes me cringe as it's so clearly false.

If you want a good example of what happens when you send children from impoverished backgrounds to these kinds of schools then watch this;

www.channel4.com/programmes/how-the-other-half-live/4od#3066893

It will be good for the kids academically and may open doors for them later, but at the cost of the easy comfortable relationship with their parents and siblings who don't have the same education available to them. This will be the right choice for some, but not for others. Only you (OP) can decide if given the gains will outweigh the losses for you & your family.

"If your child is socially/economically very disadvantaged versus his/her peers, he/she had better be genetically (so intellectual/sporting/musical/artistic/beautiful) very advantaged in order to cope, IMO"

Bonsoir, I understand what you mean but surely intellectual/musical/artistic are NOT genetic traits. The way we perceive cleverness and artistic spirit are social constructs and depend on the family's encouragement rather than genes.

All little children can draw beautifully (apart, sometimes, from severely dyspraxic ones) and it seems to get lost sometime in early primary years when they get critical about their work and their environment stops supplying them with crayons and paper as a simple pastime.

It isn't always that way though missimac. You are in danger making sweeping statements about a whole group of people based on your bad experience. Which is nonsense.

My sons manners are not taught or false, nor is he arrogant. Neither are his friends.

And if he visits mates who have a much smaller house he doesn't care. He does to visit his mate not to admire their decor.

Also Lynette does not describe her background as impoverished

When I was a scholarship/expat kid at a top public school, there was a divide among groups of friends by how much money you had.

But a) there were as many people without spending money as there were with so much they couldn't understand not having it
and b) the important bit was how much money the parents gave their kids. So while my parents couldn't have spared much more, the important thing to me was that they thought the £27.50 Mrs Thatcher said I needed (monthly child benefit) was enough for all non-uniform clothes, toiletries, going out, etc. My close friends often didn't have much more, although they might live in mansions. And one friend had access to her dad's unlimited overdraft but had to withdraw cash each day to pay the fees as her dad had fled his country; others ended up claiming asylum in the UK after a parent was executed.

Boarding schools often have more of a mix of incomes because of the various army/oil/foreign office etc kids and foreign students from all sorts of places. But then you can get a divide between day and boarding pupils - my old school now takes day pupils and integration has been a problem.

It is tricky this, I think it depends also in the child's personality, also, surely there would be some nice kids there and not just nasty toffs.
If it weren't for children from poorer backgrounds to be able to attend outstanding schools, then the poor will always be so, as there would be no social mobility, and we would all "keep our heads down", "know our place" etc

DD would never not be friends with someone whom she viewed as either too poor or too rich for her. But at the same time she is obsessed with designer clothes and all things Apple, as are most of her friends, and I can see that it would be a daunting environment for anyone not able or not wanting to keep up with the Taras.

DS however is just not like that. Nor are any of his friends. The experience of Pag's children is his experience. He literally couldn't give two hoots.

I don't know whether this is a difference between my children or symptomatic of a wider gender difference. I think it is the latter tbh

The thing that bothers my DD the most is not the very rich friends - she accepts that we aren't in the same league, but there are only one or two like this - but the ones of more modest means who still somehow have lots of expensive stuff.

My dsis and I were among the least well off at the private school we attended. I was very, very, very aware of it, particularly as I got older.

It was never commented on by any of my friends, but I was always bothered by it. It's very hard to spend every day wishing you were like other people. Doesn't tend to do great things for your self esteem .

I personally wouldn't send my dd to a school where I felt this would be the case.

I think it matters especially to teenage girls who are very competitive and often materialistic at that age. My 13 year old isn't so bad but is still under alot of pressure to conform and it is this age that they talk about other people's families/houses etc. I remember a friend being bullied for living in a council house and never having gone abroad.

At least at a state school there is a good mix of wealthy/poorer kids an kids with varying abilities. Being the poorest in a private school amongst only wealthier kids could be very very difficult. imagine being ashamed of having friends back, not being able to afford expensive trips etc.

Quattrocento - I think the brand obsession is personality, not gender, driven, judging by my DSSs and their peers. DSS1 has been brand-obsessed since he was about 9 (he is now 15); DSS2 doesn't really care at all. And among our friends, with lots of teenage boys and girls at different schools, there is no clear gender difference. Boys are often more technology and gadget than clothes and accessories brand driven - that's the only difference.

Pagwatch - I'm sure your son doesn't care about his friends smaller house, but his friend may feel it terribly and mind a lot as litlefish describes. That's my point.

I'm sure you think your son has lovely natural manners, and of course you wouldn't see him as arrogant - he's your son. Others may experience him differently - you may never know. I certainly don't know as I don't know your son or you so I couldn't possibly comment.

They are very bothered, but seem to make an exception for scholarship students & teachers' children (I'm a teacher!).

I don't think its something you can generalise about - it depends so much on the individual child - but I would be aware that children are very influenced by their peers at that age.

I attended a very expensive independent school on a full scholarship, and think there were good and bad things about it.

Initially I was very teased about my accent (I'm Welsh), and felt very self conscious about my clothes (we had no uniform, and some of the other girls had wardrobes of parisian haute couture). However, after the first year I pretty much blended in - I developed a perfect upper class accent, and developed an acute fashion sense, so I dressed in the same styles as the other girls, even if my clothes were cheaper. (Strangely this interest in fashion evaporated after I left school - now I could easily blend in with a bag lady most of the time).

I did have a fantastic education, with some inspiring teachers and very small classes. However, I didn't do very well in my A levels - largely due to lack of effort on my part.
By 6th form I'd got in with a very 'bad crowd' - my friends were based around people I was boarding with, were all fabulously rich, not at all academic, and were taking lots of drugs. To be honest, if I'd stayed at my old comprehensive with my old friends, lots of whom did very well in school and went on to be doctors and lawyers, I think I would have been more motivated and done better.

It is so easy to confuse a good selective independent school with a "posh" school - the sort you just buy into with no academic requirements. Personally I don't know why anyone would use such a school but that is my opinion. At the very academic school I work at (and my elder son attended) there is a huge mix of parental income and we also have quite a few students on bursaries. My son has friends from right across the spectrum (we are very much in the middle and they absolutely do not care about how much money the parents have - or don't. He is now at University where it matters even less. Anyway, this happens in the state system all the time too surely. There is a mix of backgrounds/incomes at all schools and it is up to us as parents to teach our children that it is how they are brought up that matters - not how much money that have.