HPV jab

[TeenageWildlife]

My DD has been told that they are about to do these jabs at school. She is 17 so they have spread the initial target recipients. I have done some research on Gardasil and wil be encouraging her strongly NOT to have it. I am shocked by the number of deaths, the fact that it has been withdrawn in Spain, and especially this What do people think?

Most women at some points in their life are likely to have encountered HPV of one (or more strains) - the Artistic and Mavaric trials currently being run in Manchester clearly indicate a wide prevalence of infection. Many womens' immune systems will clear the infection but not all will.
Some women will develop low grade abnormalities which are tied in with a transient HPV infection lasting upto 24 months (IIRC). A smaller percentage of women will not clear the virus, and develop CIN, including high grade CIN.
What is not known with certainty (as the New Zealand cases show) is how many women will progress from CIN3 to an invasive lesion. Not all CIN3 do progress - but there is currently no way to telling which you've got. Therefore if you a high grade CIN - you're offered treatment.
To carry out studies to find out whcih CIN3 go onto to cancer would be unethical - and rather difficult to find volunteers. Plus the only way to tell if a CIN3 lesion has become invasive is to biopsy it, i.e. removing somne part of the lesion which would interfere with the disease process.

This is a long winded way of saying that there is a lot of evidence that persistent high risk HPV infection is the major cause of the development of CIN (with smoking probably having a synergistic effect) and for some women, they will develop cervical cancer. The vaccine has been used in clinical trials for some years now in South America.

I do support the vaccination and this comes from someone who could (probably will be) out of a job in a few years time because there will less lab staff needed for screening! And no I'm not after redundancy!

As a study model, MMRSkeptic suggested:

"Perhaps four control groups: the vaccine group: the vaccine solution group: an injection group with no contaminants: and a non injection group.

I would say ten years."

[OUTCOMES TO BE MONITORED] "Incidence of vaccine disease: incidence of disease other than vaccine disease: immune disorder: atopic disorder: autism and ASD: and death."

What is a "vaccine solution" group?

So any illness at all would have to be recorded and tracked? Does that include common colds? Where do you draw the line? Getting identified (nowadays) with ASD must be exceedingly rare after the age of 12yrs. So you would need BIG subgroups. At least 10 million people, especially if you want to control for confounding factors. And the recording of severity of symptoms and frequency of possibly relevant illness, you're going to struggle to get participants to do it in detail over ten years.

The problem is sample size; ethically you can only do the double blind parts (the 3 groups who are receiving a jab which contains variable ingredients) with undecided participants; people who really don't know or care either way if they have the jab. You won't find enough people who fall into that category.

I don't see how modern medicine can progress with such high standards for proof of safety. I don't think you'll ever get them. Would be worthwhile to compare whether any medicine or medical treatment has been tested as rigorously as MMRSkeptic proposes.

DD(12) is having her first one later this month.
I am comfortable with her having it.
There is risk with everything. Life is a balance.
To go back to an earlier post, about fainting. I don't think DD will faint, but if DS had to have it, he would be fainting just at the thought of it!

peanutbutter do read

vaccine solution -- without the virus

you do know there are other ingredients to a vaccine than the virus?

and no, it will never be done

i would settle for a five year study with fewer outcomes being tested

in fact would settle for the control group of any vaccine trial not being given the vaccine solution without the virus

but it doesn't matter -- none of it will be done

Yes, of course my DD will get all her jabs, including HPV. I can't quite believe anyone would trust a random video on YouTube over their own doctor

I will jump at the chance to have all my daughters vaccinated against HPV.

The oldest is 17 and will hopefully be called soon - we asked at the surgery when she went recently for a tetanus booster and were told her age group would be getting invitations soon. And we were asked to wait on the premises for 10 - 15 minutes after the tetanus jab in case she fainted (she was fine) - it's a possibility after any injection.

When I was at school only the girls got a rubella injection. Later both sexes were jabbed - hopefully the same pattern will follow for HPV. I've read that the virus may also cause penile cancer - even if it doesn't, it'd be beneficial to everyone for men to be immune and not spreading it.

I will refuse to let mine be vaccinated. If they want to have the vaccine at 18, that is their choice. Until then, there's no way they're having it.

I didn't have the rubella vaccination; my mum thought - rightly, I think - that it was my choice to have it if I wanted to have children later on. I duly had a blood test before ttc, and was immune (due to having had rubella as a child).

I think the HPV vaccine just encourages girls (and their parents) to think that it's normal and okay for teenage girls to have sex - and encourages them to think they can be as promiscuous as they like as they're 'immune' to STDs. Grr.

I really can't make a decision on this one. I'm pro-vaccines, kids have had MMR etc. I'm not worried about side-effects as such but that Cervarix contains aluminium. I think. Is this normal in all vaccines? Vaccines are due to start being administered next week in school and I need to make a decision this weekend.

i don't like just doing things cos doctor says either, however on these points i strongly disagree -

1. that if you educate kids, they will always use condoms (nonsense, for one thing, a drunkenly applied johnny is likely to split..)
2. we can be sure that our kids won't be sexually active before 16 (if only!)
3. it sends a negative message to 12 year old girls - unless i have missed something and Ken giving Barbie the clap is a normal part of play at this age, to a 12 year old this is just another injection. 4)it encourages promiscuity and is therefore immoral (pretty irrelevant as most people i remember indulging in random sex were utterly unconcerned about HPV, let alone anything else.)
4. we should'nt involve our children in mass vaccination campains because they are authoritarian - otherwise we'd still have smallpox about, n'est pas?

i am particularly [angry} with Catholic schools that have rejected the jab, after all, wasn't Jesus a healer for sinners too?

Said, most vaccines contain aluminium salts (they help provoke a solid immune system response), including MMR which your DC have already had. That's partly what MMRSkeptic is on about when she says that the "vaccine solution" should be tested separately for detrimental effects. Ta MMRSkeptic, for clarifying.

Associating the HPV jab with the sexual purity also irritates me. Hepatitis B is transmitted only by exchange of bodily fluids; so effectively, it's an STD too. But no one associates sexual mores with HepB jab being routinely given (per WHO advice) in most of the world. Does Catholic church oppose HepB jab, too? Would they oppose an HIV jab?

We should be careful not to generalize about catholic schools. The ones in my area are getting the jab and the school staff are very helpful in helping coordinate it.

sorry, yes, my post should read 'those catholic schools, not all have gone that way after all.

Does this affect fertility - what studies have been done on this? Anyone know the answer?
AJ

You lot must have had much tougher classmates than I did during the rubella vacc; I definitely recall people fainting.

But then I also had boys in my class who fainted during the tetanus jabs.

My father and brother always used to have to lie down when they had blood tests.

Why is it putting people down to suggest they might faint from stress? Does it make you less of a person?

dreamylady, what 12/13yo would have the cervical cancer talk as their first exposure of people in authority talking to them about sex? They start sex education in primary school these days.

i wonder if HPV doesn't negatively affect fertility too. can't help it, though can it?

It is pure folly to think that your children will not be sexually active before 18.

DD recieved a doctors letter, she is over 16, i think this is too late to be sending out letters.

It is folly to stick your head in the sand and deny that it's possible. However, I also think it's doing girls a disservice if we expect them to be having sex before they're 18 (I imagine this could be a self-fulfilling prophecy).

And no, I am not religious (in fact, I'm an atheist).

Why on earth are 12-y-o girls supposed to be vaccinated if it's not deemed in some way acceptable for them to be sexually active?

i don't hink it means that 12 yo having sex is acceptable - it does recognise that it happens though - we live in the real world, not the one we would where only the things we want to accept exist.

Its not considered acceptable Ka, but since it is a fact that girls of 14 are sexually active we have to work with that.

Its not a self fulfilling prophecy, for I severely doubt that any girl will go out and have sex, just because she knows she is protected against some HPV strains.

oh, someone asked about vaccine for boys

My daughter has decided not to have the vaccine so we didn't return a consent form. At her school virtually all the girls have complained of sore arms but fainting is unusal. She was required to queue up with the other girls and a nurse tried to persuade her to give consent. We have also been sent a form asking us to explain why she isn't having the vaccine. So if you are concerned about your child having the vaccine because they give in easily to authority figures you probably need to make sure that the school have a signed refusal to consent.

To date my daughter has had only localised reactions to vaccine. The last one was about a year ago to the meningitis jab. We delayed this mainly because she was needle phobic but also so it was given in the higher risk teenage age years. Her arm swelled up and did not go down for several days. I am concerned about the effect of aluminium on someone who already seems to have a sensitive immune system (anaphylactic reactions to nuts). An over-reactive immune system possibly also means more chance of clearing the virus from the body naturally.

Most women are infected with HPV at some stage after they become sexually active. It doesn't usually lead to cervical cancer. Where it does cause abnormal cells they can often be treated - and there used to be a theory that many women were treated when the abnormality probably wouldn't have progressed anyway.

I really don't know how hard to try and persuade my daughter to be vaccinated.

I wish my daughter could have it.

She wouldve been 17.

She died from cancer in 2006.

Ok it wasnt cervical cancer but there is no vaccination to protect against luefuckingkemia.

I dont really know what else to say. Fucking hell.

Okay, oneopinionatedmother - but just because a minority of 12-year-olds are at it, we surely don't have to act as if they're all at it?

I think there should be a lot more public debate about this. It should be acknowledged that some very young people have sex - but they should also be aware that they need to take responsibilty for their own welfare and health, and take whatever precautions they need to take (whether that be condoms or HPV and/or rubella vaccines). I think this would be preferable to vaccinating young people who are never going to be at any significant risk of contracting any sexually transmitted diseases.

Chegirl, our posts crossed .

Now, if my DD could be vaccinated against leukaemia, that would be a different story.