I need Custy's tough advice asap [sad]

[stickyj]

Just wondered if Custy was around, need to talk

She may be at work, I'll email her this thread.

Thanks. I knda know what I need to do but it's destroying me, I hurt so much

Do you want to tell us anyway? Until she comes on?

I posted on here before abiut my teen son as \Jolymum. He's now 19 and I despise him, I love him but can't believe that he is the way he is. I never tought it was was possible to have a "bad" child, one with no mrals but here he is. I always thought it was bad parenting but I just seem to get over one thing and another comes along. He's mixing with bad peole (|always has) and just seems to have no conscience about screwing up other people's lives. I want him to leave and get some peace but I think that if you have a child, it's for life. His little brther loves him but all the kids know he steals. does drugs etc. My heart is breaking and I'm crying writing this.

Jollymum, not Jolymum. It dosn't help that his SD who has brought him up since tiny wants him out. We argue about him and it's so hard. He has left home before but come bck. He's like Jekell and Hyde. Yesterday we all went out for a family meal and I was happy. On the way out, he asked for money to take his gf out for a drink, so I said no. He sulked and stomped off. I think he took some money anyway but can't prove it.

I've got to pick the kids up now. I'll read through your posts another time and in the meantime I've emailed custy the link to this thread so keep checking.

Hopefully you should have some advice soon, but for now, don't forget you can call parentline on 0808 800 2222.

he's 19, so I'm not responsble for him any more. His older friend got my son's riend ito major debt through taking out hp yments and my son can't see what's wrong with this. He says his friend was stupid enough to do it
so it's his own fault?! Where are the orals in that? My son has also threatened this boy's mum verbally and through text.She has it on tape. I didn't bring him up like this but feel so guilty as this mum is a friend of mine and I'm ashamed of my son. Her son now owes loads of money. He took out a phone contract for my son and my son hasn't paid any of he payments and has sold the handset. The boy's dad came around and my son gave him a load of cheek (I wasn't there). He's coming round next week for the cash and I am so afraid of the neighbours seeing a fight or my other children. I work from home and am involved with kids, this wuld desroy any reputation I have.

he's 19, so I'm not responsble for him any more. His older friend got my son's riend ito major debt through taking out hp yments and my son can't see what's wrong with this. He says his friend was stupid enough to do it
so it's his own fault?! Where are the orals in that? My son has also threatened this boy's mum verbally and through text.She has it on tape. I didn't bring him up like this but feel so guilty as this mum is a friend of mine and I'm ashamed of my son. Her son now owes loads of money. He took out a phone contract for my son and my son hasn't paid any of he payments and has sold the handset. The boy's dad came around and my son gave him a load of cheek (I wasn't there). He's coming round next week for the cash and I am so afraid of the neighbours seeing a fight or my other children. I work from home and am involved with kids, this wuld desroy any reputation I have.

Sorry my keyboard keys are crap!

What an awful situation for you. You are right that you are not responsible for him. He is an adultand he has chosen to behave in the way he does. He needs to face the consequences of his actions, and if his behaviour is unacceptable to you and he wont change it I think you should tell him he will have to leave.

Give him an ultimatum and stick to it.
Is he working or on benefits?

On beneits, trying to work. Not very covincingly, won't go for crap jobs. He gets dole money and is paying off loads of debt companies. He got done recently for not paying a train ticket and got sent to court. Came home pleased with himself as he had to represent himself and got his fine halved on a legal technicality! Wanted to be a lawyer for ten seconds. Got a letter this am saying he had't paid his payments and baliffs would be round or prison. Now he has a girlfriend with a baby (not his|) and she has been told be peole what he's like but doesn't beieve them. I had a stand up stuck between his dad, sdad, dads' wife (my ex friend?!!) and him. I so don't want this baby to get involved as sn is around dodgy characters. He refuses to believe anything is his fault although having a talk the otherday, he will say things like he knows drugs etc, stealing was wrong but he's changed now because of the baby. He has pics of him on is face book. Then this morning I hear him laughing about this kid he has got into debt and I roughly qote "stamping on his face if he tells any more lies about him". I despair, he's immature and nasty and I can't believe he's mine. He can be so nice wen he wants and could sell ice to eskimos. I think he will end upin prison and I don't tink it would change him. He'd just hang around with the big boys, like the sheep he is and come out worse.

bumping for Custy

Could you throw him to stand on his own two feet? Sounds harsh but the shock of it might be just what he needs to sort himself out.

Stickyj - You cant save him from the path he seems to be chosing by letting him stay at home.

Sorry to post and run. It must be very hard for you.

He's left in a huff and managed to blag a place with very rich friend who's mum was happy to have him. I would have said I needed to speak to the other mum to check why he's been thrown out. He lived the life of reilly for a while and then came home. Don't know what happened but he asked to come back. Stern talking to etc. He's managed to wreck his 18th by not being here and he disapeared, no contact for a week. Broke my heart, worried sick every time phone rang kowing who he's knocking around with. Was here for his 19th but in disgrace again. Was hanging on not to wreck mother's day but am so ashamed of him. I love him and am scared that I wll get that pone call, the one asking me to identify him 'cos he's (according to people) hanging around with tossers. His Dad has already had to pay off a drug dealer for him.

I just feel like he won't go. How do I do it? I don't want to drive him into his girlfriends arms 'cos she doesn't need any hassle, seems nice.

It doesn't help that my dh is right, I know he's right but he's being really spiteful all the time to him. Anything goes missing, it's him....even if I prove it was one of the other kids. The atmosphere is rough and he's right, I do feel like I make excuses for him but he's here all day and it's hard been angry all the time! I keep listening to his phone calls and he's caught me out sometimes, getting the wrong end of the stick and then I feel stupid. I have major short term memory loss and he uses this against me, making me insecure.I wouldn't want him as a son in law.sad]

bumping for custy. am handing over laptop to ds2 so will check in later asap.

hiya chuck, sorry was working an unusually long day and will be on and off during the evening.

i really know where you are coming from - as you know - i think.

when my son left the first time - it borke my heart - he left on a bad note and i cried for wekks after.

but thats that - shes shit his lot now, if he went tomorrow - i'd wave!

there are a few different relationships at play here.

firstly your relationship. your son will leave at some point, when that happens you don't want your relationship to be broken.

so there needs to be some talking and communication where you admit that he is right but he has to give you a little 'fruitloop' space becuase it's your son.

his relationship with his brother - is his to maintain or not - you can only stand by - if he is too selfish to realise he is idolised by his younger brother, and ruins that relationship - then it is his to ruin. not yours to salvage.

the relationship with his gf and her daughter - nothing to do with you - if she wants a druggie bum as a boyfriend when she has a SN daughter - thats her look out - not yours.

he needs a job - and its not a piece of piss in this climate - there are plenty of folks from woolworths for a start, or barrats shoes or all the other places that have closed down - with experience at low paid jobs.

however it isn't impossible.

i would tell him to volunteer - work or volunteer. thats the choice. get paid for it or don't - either way you don't give a shit - but he is working.

and thats the crux. if he works he wont be around his druggy mates, he will have some structure to his day, he will be tired at the end of the day - his sleeping and eating pattern will return. there wont be time to get wasted of an evening becuase he has work the next day - and this is a responsability in itself - making yourself get up - dressed and out - so he will be taking responsability.

give him a reward. talk to your partner about it. think up something. get a job in the next 2 weeks and you have a £100 shopping spree in the sports store as a reward for how proud we will be of you?

but fgs - don't make it cash. we both know where cash goes.

my ds got HMV vouchers for xmas. he was expecting cash. he was mistaken!

i think you wanted me to tell you to chuck him out - but i'm not going to. its the lat last last last resort.

the phone. sit son down and tell him that a condition that he stays is that you get some of his dole money to pay the parent of this other teenager for the contract that your son has.

my son did the same thing - only in his own name. he ignored it and ignored it until he was overdrawn on his overdraft and bank charges etc. it all became too much - but he dealt with it by ignoring it.

don't give your son any credit to think about things and be rational and have a solution.

sit him down tell him that you want £20 of his £49 dole to pay the other man.

i hope this helps in some way. remember that screaming and crying makes them angry and defensive.

the best weapon is disapointment

the best solution is communication.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

so there needs to be some talking and communication with DP where you admit that he ( your DP)**is right but he has to give you a little 'fruitloop' space becuase it's your son.

You and your dp need to stand in solidarity with this one. Include your dp in everything you decide and let him in on your thoughts. No doubt he hates to see you treated like this, but could be feeling left out because he's aware that your ds isn't his son.

In fact, why not call a family meeting, if that won't cause more trouble? Arrange to meet up somewhere neutral, like a pub or restaurant (latter probably being better as people tend to "behave" more when in a formal setting). Ask for a brainstorming of ideas. Make sure that everyone has at least 10mins to say their piece and everyone else has to listen to that person. Because right now, everyone has an opinion, they are being defensive because they think they are being blamed, they are being aggressive for the same reasons and whilst there is that distance, there can be no real communication.

Communication, as custy says, is vital. You all need to agree on a way forward from this. You all have him in common, and what he's doing to your lives is very destructive. You all care about him and want to bring this to a peaceful end.

When I was a teenager, I had to give my mum some rent money whether I was on the dole or not. It's not an unreasonable request. If he were renting he'd have to pay the rent. As it is, not only does he have a nice comfy roof over his head, but he gets fed, all the bills paid and even some spending money. It's like staying at a free hotel!

Don't make it so easy for him to take the piss. Lay down the groundrules and stick with them. If you are all on board with this, then you've cut off his escape routes. If he goes to his dad, his dad will back you up, as will his stepmum. He'll soon realise you mean business and then it'll be his choice whether he accepts it or leaves of his own accord.

Tell him that you love him dearly, but one-sided love is very hard to bear. That whilst he is welcome to stay with you, he has to start taking responsibility for himself, he can no longer rely on you to mother him. He's a big boy now and someone has to cut the safety rope. You'll always be there for him, but he needs to learn to fend for himself. He does that by getting a job and paying his way.

Talk, talk and keep talking. Make an arrangement to ring his dad once a week to let him know how he's getting on. Most people, once they realise that you are trying and you are including them in everything you do, will calm down, back off and ultimately defend your corner.

Thanks guys for the input. Most of my sentences re ds start wih "but". In my heart, I think it's too ate. He has lied for years, noone knows the truth and no-one in the family trusts him an inch. Two years ago, whilst driving my mum home, she gave him £40 for trainers and he gambled it. His gf, btw, has a NT child but whilst I agree with s/mum she needs rotecting, that kid might be my step-grandchild one day. I spoke to my friend ad she is so, so bitter about what ds has done. I ended up in tears apologising for him but it's realy hard to hear how much someonehates your son and lists every one of is faults. She thinks he has no chance in life, he is just "bad" and will never, ever change because he really doesn't care about anyone else or why would he shit on them. He had another friend that two weeks ago went out with him. Next day I got a phonecall saying that the office where he was living over his uncle's pub had been trashed, his credit card and money missing from his wallet. Ds had driven this kid's car home because said kid (22) had had his drink spiked he tinks. (Was it my ds that did it, we don't know?). Ds was wrecked, had driven car home, left friend unconcious on flor in bathroom and taken car to visit his girlfriend, wrecking the tyre on the way home. Friend now has no home and no job, uncle kicked him out back to is dad's because he let a friend in and this hapenend. Ds doesn't care, said he didn't do it and was nt bothered about leaving guy on the floor, said he was sleeping. Friend came round with tyre bil, 'cos I asked him too and was guted at ds's reaction.

I had a talk to his dad and he's lived there for a week when my dh kicked im out (me biting my tongue but loving the quiet). Ex h lasted a week before smacking him one nd ds left for another friend's to stay at. I don't see anything of his that comes through ost, I just know he has interviews (?) at job centre and supposedly gets a cheque weekly. He tells me (which is probably true) that he just pays it all out to his other debts. I know that he will have to do something about the court letter or it's baliffs/prison. I think I've given up on him because there's no hope for him to get a conciounce, he's just too "bad" and yes, I feel a failure for it. I've put myself on St ohns Wort 'cos it's hard to cope and my job runs from home. I will die of shame if the baliffs turn up here while I'm doing my sessions with tiny kids and their mums. My reputation and my business will be rined and I've spent ten years building it up.

That's a very defeatist attitude. Basically you've given up on him and have allowed him to be labelled a failure.

And you are allowing yourself to be dragged down with that label.

Those are his debts, not yours. Call that meeting I suggested. He's not just your responsibility, he has 2 parents. Hear their ideas and agree on a course of action.

Report his crimes to the police. If he steals from you, get the police involved. If he goes to prison at least he'll have time to think about where his life is going and it might be the wake up call that he needs.

Someone told you your son was bad?

He might be hard work right now and in with te wrong crowd, but no one is just 'bad'. Please don't give up on him.

Don't get me wrong I think you need to throw him out to stand on his own two feet, but he still needs to know that you are there for him when you need him.

My best friends brother went through a very bad time after leaving school.

He started taking herion. He stole from his mum. from his sister, even from his newborn neice. He would have fist fights with his younger sister if she tried to stop him taking money. He went to prison for stealing.

They threw him out, but no matter what anyone told them they never gave up on him. He knew they were always there for him.

Things are very different now, he can't get a job because of his past, but he is on training courses and helping out at a local drugs carity. He is a great uncle and brother.

I don't know what changed him, maybe seeing his friends dying around him from heroin. Maybe something else. But I am certain that he wouldn't have made it if he thought his mum and sister had given up on him.

Your son is not bad. No one is 'bad', he may do things that are bad, but he is not bad. I don't know whatt will help him, but I do know that you need to ignore these people who are telling you to give up on him.

he gets a cheque - but your not right sure ow much - and this lying cheating, good for nothing son of ours is telling you he is paying his other debts?

c'mon.

tell him to get a paid job or volunteer - thats the crux od the matter.

his gf is non of your business - cant see why you are trying to protect her and her child from your son - thats HER BUSINESS.