Manhandled 12 yo daughter last night

[LovesTents]

It's so hard sometimes to know if you have done the right thing -grrr.

Yesterday evevning 12 yo dd was being quite stroppy, she was watching a video in the playroom and was asked to pull over the curtain ,she gave out about this and wouldn't do it, then she kicked the coffe table out of the way when she eventually got up to do it.

This just drove me mad and I told her to go to her room, anyway, I ended manhandling her up to the bedroom and she hit me about the head quite hard while I was doing it.

I was really upset and shocked over this and I just don't know what to do about it. I don't think I was being too rough when I was trying to get her to go to upstairs , I just didn't know what else to do to get her up there.
Although when I got her to her room I did push her onto the bed as I was so annoyed about her hitting me and she started screaming like a banshee, I'm sure if anyone heard they would have thought she was being murdered.

I feel bad that I manhandled her. What do you do though ? Should I just have left her and let her get her own way - I felt that I couldn't do that.Her slapping me has really got to me though ,although I also think she is getting too old to be physically moved about like I would with my 5yo.

dittany -I understand where you are coming from, I did not like having to pysically take my daughter upstairs, I found it upsetting and stressful and I'm sure she did too, but I will say that in the past I have physically moved my children away from a source of danger or when they have been told to go up their rooms I have often taken an arm and guided them there, I don't think this is violence.

However I think my dd is too old for this at this stage and I want to find other ways of getting her to do as is told.I would like to think that I am a fair ,easygoing enough mother but I will be strict with my children when the occasion calls for it. I will not be a walkover.

LoveTents you don't need to defend yourself -you were not violent. Your DD was in the wrong, not you. The strategy of guiding them upstairs may have worked in the past, but now your DD is bigger, and older, it clearly does not - and it seems that you have learned from this that a new stategy is needed, such as withdrawing priviledges, or taking something away from her.
I think it is important to remember that 12 year old's are still children, and at that age need boundaries set for them more than ever. She may think she's a woman and naturally want to challenge your authority - but she needs to be reminded that she is just a child, in a loving and supportive, but firm way.

I really don't think physical force and violence are the same at all dittany. Violence is deliberate injury, aiming to hurt someone. Physical force is just physically making them do something (or not do something) and for many younger children that's absolutely essential sometimes. I think it would be terrible for children (and is, in schools, if it's true that teachers can't use force) if adults think it's better for a child to be beaten up by another child than to step in and physically prevent it. And things like dragging a child into their room, while maybe not the level of steely custy-style control we'd all like, is really NOT the same as beating them.

I don't think you should be physically touching/manhandling them in anger at all. I am not allowed as a foster carer to touch her in any angry way at all - if I did she would be removed and I would likely be arrested - and I include your incident and what happended(and social services certainly would) in with that.

Having said that the way we've been taught to deal with that is to say (just like with younger children) 'if you do that - this will be the consequences' with the currency of the stuff they find important - like their phone, money etc.

Remaining icily calm and informing them of the consequences is my favourite way to do this - as I look very in control.

I appreciate the fuming nature of how much they rile you (and I have had to go away and compose myself many times) so I'm sending you sympathy too.

I would apologise for touching her and then insert consequences for her behaviour.

pmsl @ constipation - will remember that - and prolly pass it off in future as my very own advice

i still don't think you were wrong.

yes! i am scarey.

i suppose the cutting of the plugs is mental abuse?

pmsl

Your post struck a chord with me Lovetents.
I also have a dd12yrs. I brought her downstairs to read your post, and see if she found the behaviour acceptable and if not what punishment would she think reasonable.

Here is what she thought..

-It was very wrong for dd to hit you.
But you should not have manhandled her.
She says you just dont hit Mums. She would not expect an apology if she had hit me.

-Punishment? Taking away phone/ipod would be the worst punishment and also being grounded but dd thinks she swould expect this as a result.

DD thinks Custardo is very scary Mum !!

DD is no angel, believe me. We went through hell and back when she went through puberty early. Shouting and fighting and she hated her siblings. But I guess it was a bit like me with PMT, her hormones were obviously allover the shop.

I took advice from older Mums and essentially they told me to build up my relationship with DD and get time for just the 2 of us. It was really hard at first, as I felt we didnt have much in common. however,now we love to go into the city by train, look for lipgloss/earrings etc, we get a hot chocolate while she tells me her gossip and I share stuff a little with her. It has made SO MUCH difference to our relationship. We rarely fall out now as we feel we have too much to lose. its not perfect, but compared to 12 months ago we have a mutual respect.

Oh, I must add, I do have a bad temper ! And I would never judge you Lovetents, I am just offering a bit of advice.

I'd have pulled the plug out of the TV, although it is harder as her sibling was watching too.

It's difficult. DD hit me although she's a couple of years younger & it wasn't hard & on the arm. I recall just stopping & looking at her & saying in a firm, but calm voice, You will NOT ever do that again. Which seemed to work. Touch wood.

But as I hardly shout it seems to scare her a bit when I do so that usually works too.

I'd have pulled the plug out of the TV, although it is harder as her sibling was watching too.

It's difficult. DD hit me although she's a couple of years younger & it wasn't hard & on the arm. I recall just stopping & looking at her & saying in a firm, but calm voice, You will NOT ever do that again. Which seemed to work. Touch wood.

But as I hardly shout it seems to scare her a bit when I do so that usually works too.

Oops. Only pressed the button once, honest.

hi sorry you are having problems, i fully agree with custardo, i have 2 teenage boys who are both over 6 feet tall and i am 5f2". you cant master your daughter with physical strength for ever, so definatly freeze her out and make this the worse crime she has ever comitted.DO NOT APOLOGISE.she deserved it and would have got a bloody good slap off her father in my house.my hubbie went toe to toe on a few occasions with both my sons, and they are none the worse for it. stop all pocket money, lifts and warm conversation, tell her you are very hurt and disgusted and she will eventually cave in. then i suggest a trip to the shops and have a girly time together to reconnect. hold your nerve, it will get better, honest.

My point of view only.
I've done the confrontation/switching off TV/sanctions/grounding etc
You know what? It only got worse and worse, with the situation becoming more and more confrontational.
I hated it. Life living with teens then was not pleasant at all. And the teen in question didn't like it either-we got further and further apart-like he had moved to planet teenage and I was in planet grown up and never the twain would meet.
Took a long time in his twenties to move back from that place.

This time round with teens, we have lived much more consensually. Tried to find an answer that everyone is happy with.
In your situation, I'd have asked what I had done to make her grumpy and unhappy-and I would have listened to what she told me.
In our house, we all have a right to an equal say, whilst remembering that five of us live here and what one person does directly affects the others.
They know that I would never switch off the TV/take their remote-or use any other sanctions.
They know their viewpoint is respected and I will listen-and so have become more and more reasonable, and will go out of their way to find a way out of the situation.

Phrases like "Can we start again please" and "I am sorry I shouted" have helped enormously.

I remember very clearly my mother acting in the way that left me powerless and frustrated-and I showed her my frustration and anger in response-the situation just escalated. Then I went and repeated the pattern with our first teen-and then almost did it again the second time over, until we stopped and rethought as the way things were going really was not nice.

I much prefer it this way.
I am not pretending any of us don't get get grumpy sometimes-including me and dh, but the young people living here know that everyone has an equal say, there will be no sanctions and that we will work with them to resolve anything.
So we don't have a problem.
I no longer recognise the place you are all describing. We don't have the situation where things get to the stage described in the OP.

Just my point of view. Take it or leave it. Make fun of it or not. It is just my point of view, but there is another way.

Hi ,thanks all for the input.

Well we made up the next evening.

She came to me upset as we weren't talking and we had a talk about the situation and how and why it had escalated. She apologised for slapping me . I said that I should not have manhandled her ,that I thought she was getting too mature for me to do that and we should be able to work out arguments and disagreements in a better way.

Some might think I'm too soft, but I don't want things to get to that level again.
She has had some punishment - no dvds, internet or sleepovers at her nana's for two weeks.

I had a similar situation with 12yo DD1 at the weekend, when she kicked, slapped & punched me. I'm not going there again. Have been discussing it on the bolshy teens & single parent thread. Have tried sanctions, but working out the right currency is hard. Computer seems the main one but is also vital for homework (& strict school is giving lots of written assignments), so haven't so far applied ban on that. May be next. I've tried the sitting down and discussing, with everyone (inc DS - 14) having rights to try to work things out, but DD2 (who's 9) is the only one buying in - and she's not yet causing any of the problems! And in the heat of the moment, with Mt Vesuvius (aka DD1) blowing its top, it's extremely hard to remain calm - whatever the intention! No DH back-up, as he left years ago. Great idea spending 1-on-1 time, but very, very hard to organise, as so much has to get packed into weekends. DD1 has been sweetness & light since I fell ill at the weekend - incredibly helpful & has even showered & tidied bedroom! - but it's pretty drastic if this is what it takes!

Hi teentorn, I think I might have posted on your thread a couple of days ago.
LOL at Mt Vesuvius , mines the same ! Agree with you it can be very hard to stay calm when it's all going off, especialy if they are not even listening to what you are saying.
Mine is being good as gold now too, she had a bit of a shout at dd3 age5 yesterday and I shot her a deadly look, works for now but will have to work out strategy for staying calm in the future!

I'm with Custy. There's only one chief beatch in our house and it's NOT DD.

I have a phrase for ds when we've come across this.. " your hormones are no excuse for that behaviour"
along with " when you are being a reasonable person to be around.. you may join in.. you decide when that is."

I have however been known to walk up to TV and unplug.. it got plugged back in again with a teen humph.. so I walked over took the plug out and chopped the plug off

I only had to do this once.. the shock and dismay that it caused was enough to never have to repeat ... so far .

Ds1 now warns the other two with.. " don't push mum.. you know she will.. remember the plug!"

lol @ "remember the plug" !

So what happened to that cool green grass, cool green grass, LovesTents?! Think the advice about counting to 10 is good (but very hard when the chips are down) and also trying to speak quietly - my kids know that's a danger sign with me. But when you've got blood-curdling screams emanating from DD (yours sounds horribly like mine!), it would take an awful lot to do this and she probably wouldn't take the blindest bit of notice anyway ... I guess the key is trying not to let things escalate to that stage. I'm working on it!

So what happened to that cool green grass, cool green grass, LovesTents?! Think the advice about counting to 10 is good (but very hard when the chips are down) and also trying to speak quietly - my kids know that's a danger sign with me. But when you've got blood-curdling screams emanating from DD (yours sounds horribly like mine!), it would take an awful lot to do this and she probably wouldn't take the blindest bit of notice anyway ... I guess the key is trying not to let things escalate to that stage. I'm working on it!

dittany - that attitude is fine until you reach a point when you have to restrain. DH is at a school for pupils with behavioral difficulties. He's been there since Sept and has already had to step in to restrain children on 2 occasions. Or they would have beaten seven shades of sht out of each other. Children with problems that take no prisoners. Now clearly the OP's dd doesn't have behavioural problems but TBH my experience of an 11yr old (gawd help me he's not even a real teenager yet!) is that there are times when he simply will not* listen to reason. And I have had to 'move' him out of a room when he's lost if and is kicking something, or being too rough when play-fighting with his little brother. Not often but it happens. What am I supposed to do? Try to reason with a child who is momentarily so mad he can't control his actions? Make the little one leave the room so he doesn't get hurt? He has a temper. No big surprise, so do I. But he has yet to learn to totally control his. So for the moment I need to help him. Sounds like the OP's DD saw red too. It can't be allowed to happen.

I'm with julienoshoes on this. Am on third teenager now and I do the same. Makes for a much more pleasant time.