15 year old has no aspirations, drive or motivation

[Needsomesun02829]

My son has ALOT of problems. Tried cahms a few times but nothing has helped.
He has general anxiety , severe health anxiety, ocd, low mood/high mood, and the usual teenage high opinion of themselves/think they know everything. Behavioural problems at school. It sounds like a boy crying out for help, attention, that there is a problem. His school (and previous schools) have gone and above and beyond for him.
He can leave classes, spend time in the hub instead of going to lessons he doesnt like, he doeent attend his detentions yet doesnt get into trouble for it. For his exams (currently year 10) they have fought with the exam board to get him extra time, rest breaks, sit somewhere else to do them. Theyve given him an older student as mentor to show him what he can achieve. He wont do homework. And most definitely will not revise for his exams. This upcoming year 11 is going to be hell.
When he feels pressure instead of asking for help or trying his best he acts out or makes excuses to get out of it.
This week he has work experience. They were supposed to arrange this all themselves etc. He just wouldnt do it. So myself and his head of year worked together to get him a placement and a really great place where she said there is a chance they will offer him an apprenticeship at the end. He has done the first two days , says he hated it, days too long, hes bored, everyone is old there, boring work etc. Yesterday he said he was ill so he didn't go. Today saying the same thing.
I dont think he is ill , but he gets himself worked up over things to the point he ends up feeling ill. All because he doesnt want to go.
We are dreading when he leaves school. He will not pass his gcses. Hes only taking 3 as dropped the rest with schools permission. He doesnt want to do anything. Doesnt want to go to college or work.
To make matters worse we dont live anywhere near any colleges. They are miles away. So that already adds a problem in as he will just not go or will expect us to take him all the time.
There is a fine line between doing everything for him and letting him fail. I think we have all gone above and beyond to help and he isnt trying to help himself at all. Hes like an ostrich putting his head in the sand
We just dont know what to do with him at this point.
I think when hes older and matured he will find his way but what do we do until then?

That sounds so tough op. Hopefully some will be along with advice but I just wanted to say it sounds like you're a lovely mum who really cares

This is the outcome of the ‘no consequences’ model we have adopted for kids and teens now, where everything is about making them feel ‘safe and respected’ rather than showing them they’ve been a twat and there will be a punishment.

Stop doing everything for him. Stop making his meals, stop washing his clothes. Leave the items there so he can do it himself but he needs a crash course in personal responsibility. Tell him unless he contributes to the house and gets a job at 18, he will be expected to leave, and mean it.

15 is still fairly young but he’s so far behind the sooner you start with this the better. The holding hand approach hasn’t worked, in fact it’s created a spoiled baby.

I hate to be the person who pulls the mumsnet nd bingo card but is there a possibility he could be neurodivergent because this sounds a lot like what the eaely stages of burnout look like?
My child had given up this time last year but she now has a diagnosis and meds for adhd and is waiting for assessment for asd (we are assuming she has it and have put as much asd support in as we can. She is doing loads better and has started talking about alevels and jobs where as this time last year she was suicidal, self harming and had totally given up on life.

I tbink knowing that she is not broken, just built differently wirh different needs to other people has been what has made the difference.

Exactly this.
Schools bending over backwards to ‘help’ these kids actually give them these feeling of superiority where they can do what they want because people will relax the rules for them. Unfortunately the world doesn’t work like that.

It‘s time for some tough love and some actual consequences. Misbehaving in school or at home and you switch the WiFi off/remove his games console (if he games). Stop running around after him and leave him to start looking after himself a bit more.

Make it very clear that once he leaves education, he needs a job, and siting on his arse will not be tolerated. Some home truths are needed for him. The world isn’t going to tolerate his attitude, workplaces aren’t going to give him a ‘timeout’ card or a nice hub he can go to when he doesn’t want to work anymore.

Schools are not setting kids up for success with their constant mollycoddling.

Been through cahms multiple times. They just focus on the anxiety and wont put him for an assessment. Weve begged and pleaded with them
We are in the process of doing right to choose but by the time we have been seen he will have nearly finished school. Will still do it of course.
School make accommodations for him without the diagnosis. And have been so helpful. But he just wont try himself.

The difficultly is , he is fine at home where the pressure is less. Over the years we have gone through very stressful periods at home due to his school problems, and we were very strict with him. It didn't help. It made him worse. As he felt pressure from everywhere and buried his head in the sand more.
School and ourselves decided to try and work with him in an encouraging way rather than punishment but thats not helped either.
I have taken a step back now as dont know what to do. I have health problems myself, husband has severe mental health problems and now younger daughter seems to be heading towards an ED. Son has always taken priority and I think we are all suffering for it.

This sounds like lack of motivation which could be adhd and meds can make an astonishing difference.

Sounds like he’s so scared to try and fail that he decides not to try at all.

Sounds like he is either neurodiverse or has some form.of learning disabilities

Has.he ever been seen by an educational psychologist? I found it very useful with my autistic daughter as it was the only time I felt anyone actually got to the bottom.of her cognitive processing problems.

She was unable to process information in noisy stressful settings..one of the reasons she can't learn in a mainstream school.

Could you afford private input of any kind?

If he is unable to cope in unsupported environments like the work experience...I would actually be realistic about thst. He doesnt sound like he is ready or capable for that sort of independence.

Ignore the judgemental comments BTW. It sounds clear he has real functioning difficulties and being strict won't change that.

Could you move to be nearer a college with good send provision?

What would a diagnosis even do? He’s 15. He needs to pull his finger out not be provided with another excuse as to why he can’t do anything.

I agree with the 'consequences' argument from pp on here. Unfortunately however, I don't think you can take everything away without some support to put a different kind of psychological structure in place.

So consequences definitely, but perhaps initially some leeway. Plenty of conversations. 'This is something you need to do. How will you eat? What's your plan? We can't support you forever. It's full time education or a job. That's the reality' etc. Even if it doesn't go in at first, it will eventually. That's how it works. Plain consequences for non attendance. Financial? Loss of tech. But give him a chance to earn it back for example. Six hours loss of school/work experience = two hours loss of tech. For example. No hw = no WiFi. 'When you've done your hw. You can have WiFi.'

Personally I would stop with the neuro divergence thing. That road is very long - literally where does it stop - and draught with frustration, difficulty, lack of achievement, pathology - basically a massive mess. Think ahead - what happens to all those kids who are ADHD and 'cant function' when they're 25? Outcomes are not great. Risks of long term medication use. Temporary relief perhaps. Long term nightmare.

I understand we shouldn’t be medicating kids before they try to learn to strategies to managed ADHD. However, managed correctly a diagnosis is vital for someone to get what is going on for them.

It is far far more difficult for kids, who don’t understand why it’s so hard and can’t cope. They choose very unhealthy strategies, such as ED, which op has mentioned with her dd.

All kids/people are different. Some benefit from being pushed and others just crumble. The ops kid is clearly in the second category and doesnt have enough spare resources to bounce back if pushed. All the posters saying that this is the result of soft parenting are lucky enough to have not had a child who is neurodivergent. This is not soft parenting. It is responsive parenting.
The op has tried being strict previously and it has made it worse so advising her to do that again is not helpful.

Right to choose wait lists can be 6 months for some providers. Check the adhd site her for up to date waiting times. And choose one who can prescribe too https://adhduk.co.uk/right-to-choose/

Agreed. My dd would likewise crumble. All of this talk of namby pamby parenting as if it’s to blame ignores completely the needs of the child. If I acted like that my dd would be dead. Literally dead. I’m aware that still likely wouldn’t be believed, because unless you’ve been in that situation it is too hard to grasp.

I just really dont know how to get him through the next few years.
The school he goes to has an attached college and that is where we presumed he would be able to go. But they only accept high grades which he wont get so is basically being pushed out.
What makes it difficult and is also really sad is he has lots of plans for the future and often talks about doing this and that , but doesnt seem to have the ability to actually do any of it
He is so so defensive and will not accept help. Just throws it back in your face. If I could pull him out of school with no consequences then I would.
He has mentioned the army before. I dont know if thats a good idea or not. It could be the making of him

Sounds like ND my y10 dd was diagnosed with ADHD last summer. She will not ask for help if she doesn’t know something - rather get in trouble for not doing it.

she did work experience - she struggled day 3 and then day 4 pretty much point blank refused to go. I left her to it and eventually she made the right decision but she found it really hard being out of comfort zone. She has anxiety and gets worried about stuff but just fronts it up that everything is fine.

They’re not coping because they’re on screens all the time and have been waited on hand and foot. They haven’t developed any patience, sticking power or independence

Of course kids need to learn independence, resilience and self-reliance, however, they’re not going to achieve this by parents stopping looking after them and threatening them with homelessness at 18. If anything, that will make it worse. A neurodivergent person for example may not have a clue how to manage a day, how to look after themselves. They need scaffolding and lots of input, time and energy from parents / carers to help them learn and practice all those skills. I am talking about those, who have the capacity to learn btw.

This is the outcome of the ‘no consequences’ model we have adopted for kids and teens now, where everything is about making them feel ‘safe and respected’ rather than showing them they’ve been a twat and there will be a punishment.

Children do very well indeed feeling safe and being respected, surprisingly! 😉Mine are amazing and were brought up always feeling safe and respected at home. Healthy and fair boundaries too but I agree it does require emotional intelligence and good people skills to get that balance right. I happen to be a very good manager in the workplace too.

I suppose @FernFaery the real skill is setting boundaries without needing to feel powerful over someone smaller than you. But some adults enjoy feeling powerful over younger people.

Would you say the same about autistic children getting help support and provision at school for their behavioural and social challenges?

How does ADHD medication give motivation out of interest?

The Army not a chance
You have to do as you're told and face up to challenges.

The work experience was a great opportunity but everyone's old,it was boring ,day was too long.

We all found things that are distasteful at work but that's working life I'm afraid and that's a lesson he's going to have to learn.

But that’s not support. That’s just letting them run away from the things they struggle with.
I think I have a bit of experience here as I am autistic and was also a teacher. Schools are not helping to set autistic children up for life.

Editing
He can leave classes, spend time in the hub instead of going to lessons he doesnt like, he doeent attend his detentions yet doesnt get into trouble for it. For his exams (currently year 10) they have fought with the exam board to get him extra time, rest breaks, sit somewhere else to do them. Theyve given him an older student as mentor to show him what he can achieve. He wont do homework.
I didn't think about OP's support provision, just in general. I don't know, I have no direct experience with autistic teenagers but they seem to need time away from people. If this provision keeps them in school that must be a good thing.

I also agree that avoidance in nt people young or old really hold people back, Not sure what the answer is.