What options do I have? 15 year old son bad behaviour in school. Toll on us is huge

[Helpw0383]

My son is 15. He has horrendous problems in school. Hes always struggled with the classroom environment. Teachers and us think adhd but cahms will never accept referall as he does so well outside of school. Its extremely frustrating.
Anyway, his behaviour in school has now deteriorated to the point hes barely in lessons. His relationship with the teachers is breaking down.
Every day he gets detentions, isolation and is on report. He doesnt attend any detentions and does no homework.
Im not just saying this , other people will back up what im saying including teachers. When he is not in a classroom he is great. Perfect on school trips. Perfect on work experience. Great outside of school.
Even though he doesnt cause us problems at home, the stress of the school situation transfers into the home.
My husband and I are both working professionals with qualifications etc and we just can't relate to this behaviour. Weve tried ignoring and punishing but nothing works. He repeats alot of the behaviours.
He is in year 10. I honestly don't know how we are going to get through the next 12 months. He is going to fail every gcse. We just want him to pass english and maths at grade 4. I would be happy with that
What can we do to help this situation? I dont want advice or tips on the behaviour as us, counsellors, family, friends and teachers have all tried to help and nothing works.he is also massively triggered by other badly behaved students of which there are lot of in his classes. Hes in bottom sets. Was in top sets and is capable of that.
He has mocks coming up, they will be able disaster. Any time he sits a test he cant keep quiet etc. Ive asked for him to do them elsewhere.
I cant homeschool him as he doesnt engage at home. Didnt during covid. Was running round the room. And like I say doesnt do homework.
I am positive that hes going to get expelled.

Is there anything we can do? There is a sen hub in the school that he wants to go to, but he doesnt have an actual diagnosis?
Reduced timetable?
If we pulled him out is there anywhere else he could go? Such as a college? We are in the midlands.
My husband and I are heading for divorce and its largely due to this. The stress is incredible. I have school ringing me every day. Husband is so frustrated he just says hes naughty and has given up. Please help

1. Write to GP + request ADHD assessment via Right to Choose
2. Email school SENCO requesting SEN Support + SEN hub access
3. Apply for EHCP assessment yourself
4. Ask about managed move / alternative provision
5. Push for reduced timetable immediately

You don’t need a diagnosis to get support

True but you do to get meds

Pay for a private assessment.

@Helpw0383 do you have an adult education centre with a 14-19 study programme nearby?? They are very small classes with excellent support.
Also would the school have support a reduced timetable for him? He sounds really unhappy at school x

Does he ever give you any feedback on why he does it etc? You say you’re both professionals, there’s no nice way to ask this, but are you there for him or busy all the time? Has he ever connected with a hobby? I assume he’s not sporty because you don’t say he is but is there any subject he connects with like woodworking, metalwork etc? Is he a gamer? Would he code?

We both went to university and were lost as to why our eldest wouldn’t study, wouldn’t y go to class etc. When he stopped going to school we started treating him like a child, asked for help with simple tasks, playing board games, got him into manga, coding games etc. I used to sit in the room when he had YouTube on and just be interested and we started chatting again. Never got him near a school book and he barely passed but now he’s working pt in a pitch and putt course and he reads economics books and he’s happy and we don’t have to nag him.

Exams and school are not for everyone

@aurpod1980 is spot on. Do those things.

I'll save you the frustration of a CAMHS referral wait and convey the most valuable piece of advice we got in CAMHS family therapy: invest in, and preserve, the relationship with your son. While all the rest is churning and grinding you down, focus on maintaining positive regard for your son, let him know he is loved and treasured. You may be feeling as if, on some level, you need to toe some kind of 'line' and restrict warmth and affection to show how much you disapprove of how he's handling himself, but please don't.

Young people with ADHD in particular find themselves on the receiving end of an extraordinary amount of negative feedback everyday. You have tried consequences, sanctions and punishments, reasoning, cajoling and coaxing: he's a smart kid, he gets it, and if it was in his gift to regulate effectively and fix what is happening, he probably would. So focus on what you can do: be his advocates, his alternative trail-blazers, be effective mediators with professionals involved with his care, and give him opportunities to feel good about himself.

I just came on to say you sound like lovely parents

DS1’s experience of school changed after he started ADHD meds.

Have you had a private assessment for adhd? If not I would do this first.
ask school (if they are saying he has potentially got adhd) if he can go in the sen hub, this could really help if he wants to go there. Ask them if they can trial for two weeks to see if it helps.

he really needs a diagnosis to get any of the things for exams which could help like a quiet room, laptop to type, extra time, breaks. All these things can help hugely with adhd and autism students. He sounds like he desperately needs a diagnosis.

in the meantime don’t pull him out but suggest the sen hub saying you’re going to be pushing for an assessment (or paying)

Potential if they refuse this is a reduced time table til you get the diagnosis. That way he will have less stress from being in potentially the wrong environment for him to learn.

DS is now diagnosed with ADHD, way past school. Our local school is OFSTED outstanding, an academy etc etc. They punished DS for being dozy. As he was bright, but dyslexic and undiagnosed for ADHD. He got to the point of being expelled for being rude, defensive and walking out.
The academy regime was very punitive and something always caught him out.
That school is not the place for your boy, by the sounds of it.
My heart goes out to you. I know how painful and stressful this is, I hope it gets less hard for you and your family.
On the odd occasion is am in the car driving past the school with DS, he has a physical reaction of feeling stressed and sick as we go by.
I wish I had understood DS a bit more at the time and done a lot more to move him
instead thinking there were no other feasible options.

Hi, I agree with this advise, most 14-16 colleges are for home educated young and you usually need to have been home educating for a year to be accepted on the course and known to the EHE team.With Alternative provision you remain on the school role and they pay for you to attend another setting 1/2 days a week etc with expectation you are in school rest of the time. These provisions are usually target at an interest etc. If he was to be permanently excluded your council should step in with a bespoke teaching package for him and most likely out him through functional skills for maths and English

Let the mocks be a disaster. Talk to him afterwards.

Have a consistent consequence routine. Attempt to negotiate it. Financial maybe. £3 loss for detention. ££5 for reflection/isolation. Loss of tech.

Yr 10 can be hair raising. Play the long game.

Personally I didn't go down the medication route. I don't believe in the long term cost benefit ratio of medication for teenagers unless absolutely necessary. No medication is without it's long term risk factors.

Most, if given the chance, will mature in Y11, some sixth form. It can be nail biting. Try and support the school. Let him know they have rules, he has to play by them. Or there are consequences. Invest in some serious self care for yourself and your husband. Together. Separately. Be kind. Breathe. Have a gin.

This every day of the week. You’re both professionals and imagine you have the funds. Make sure that the people assessing have the qualifications to give a diagnosis recognised by the NHS. That means it’s a full diagnosis btw.

My dd didn’t cope at all with state academy. We were in the lucky position to be able to pull her out and put her into private provision in year 9. For her, it was that or school refusal. So I get the difficulties.

I could have written this about my daughter 2 years ago. School just isn’t for everyone. The more
my daughter clashed with the teachers, the more the relationship with school broke down. There are provisions whereby they can start college at 14, but like my DD your child has probably missed the boat for that. I didn’t know about it and school didn’t mention it, so that was disappointing. My DD did stick at it, but I think that was just sheer luck that she had a few great teachers who believed in her.

In my DDs case, I had a meeting with school and came up with a plan whereby she only attended certain lessons. It was tough, and school pushed back, but it was the only way we could tick the boxes in terms of attendance and the minimum standard of education. She did English, maths, health and social care and business studies. Science was the major push back from school but she just wouldn’t go in. When other lessons were in operation, she would either go to the library or she would go to another English or maths class. In the end she passed health and social and business, and failed maths and English.

In college now she is absolutely flying. Top of all her classes, great group of friends, passed English last year and is trying maths again this time. So my recommendation is don’t give up on your son. Speak to school and try to come up with a plan. Explore college if that’s still an option. And talk to him, find out what’s going on and why he’s behaving this way. In my daughter’s case, she didn’t have many friends and was feeling quite lonely. She was also struggling academically and comparing herself to me and her sister, and feeling a failure. It was clear she was somewhat depressed, and again school helped with arranging a school counsellor.

All is not lost OP!

Thank you for all the lovely understanding comments.
We are going through right to choose at the moment. We are coming up with issues of finding somewhere private in our area that the NHS will also accept to take over the medication from .
Our relationship has been affected because the school situation was dominating everything and we were losing sight of our wonderful son underneath.
I wish so much that he could just behave and crack on but he just can't. I feel sorry for the teachers and the other students this effects but he is my child. He is in alot of distress.

Everything around him is negative. All the teachers are negative. His whole day is based around negative feedback. His constant detentions just pile up and up and up.
He has a classroom support plan that I really dont think is followed. The school he is at wants excellence. It doesnt help that his particular school year is a very bad year. There is a lot of sen and alot of students that misbehave. The teachers have a lot to deal with and my son is surrounded by other badly behaved kids. There is also a drug problem in the school and alot of violent fights. This isnt an inner city comp, this is an exam passing entrance highly sort after school .

Regardless of diagnosis, if that's the environment he is in I think you need to move him somewhere else as soon as possible. You need to act quickly but it is still doable, I know children who moved schools for year 11.

@Helpw0383I think you sound wonderful parents, but please don’t place all your hopes on some sort of diagnosis. My daughter was seen by CHAMS on multiple occasions and although not formally diagnosed, they did say she displayed ADHD traits. The diagnosis pathway where I live is 3 years, so she wouldn’t have received any medication in time for school. To me, it just sounds like the environment doesn’t suit him. All I wanted for my DD was to finish school, to go to prom, but I realise this was the completly wrong mindset now and I should have pulled her. Not just for her, but for the classmates and teachers that she was disrupting too. When is he 16? Is looking at apprenticeships not an option yet? Has he actually said what he wants to do after school?

Many nhs areas will not now accept medication transfers from private providers.

my dd has just stayed private.

you may want to look into whether your area has a ban like mine.

You have my sympathy. Ds was similarly difficult from years 9 to 13 (ADHD diagnosis at 13). His year 9-11 school was supportive and got him through his GCSEs. The school he moved to for sixth form was totally unsupportive, insisted on creating conflict with him and it was awful. In the end, after lots of arguments and meetings and upset, he decided he wasn't going into school from the January of year 13 and the school gave up on chasing him. He had a part time job to give him some structure, which helped, but he actually got on with his work at home and got ok results in the end. Once we were no longer battling to get him in and arguing about detentions etc, things were a bit calmer.

In hindsight I wish we'd just kept him at home for sixth form. So if I was in your shoes, I think I'd take him out of school. I know you say he won't work at home - but he's not achieving anything at school either at the moment. With him at home, you'll be free of the pressure of school constantly contacting you. You could start with an agreement that he just does some online lessons for English and Maths and see how they go. Add some hobbies or interests to fill his days - my ds got really into weightlifting from about 14, and that filled 1-2 hours a day. He also took up ju-jitsu and Thai boxing. The benefits of this sort of thing are that your ds sees himself making progress - it's a real boost to self-esteem when they've just been slammed down at school all day every day.

The assessors we are using for dd said on their website at the time of booking that they are recognised by the NHS. But as Octavia said, there are bans in some places, which I didn’t know about.

Idk how it works. Could you take your ds out of county, ergo anywhere in the country even if a long way away? If possible, you could do the parental stuff on zoom so it would only be a one off trip.

My heart goes out to you, he sounds exactly like my son 8 years ago. His education was actually saved by the Covid lockdowns.
He was diagnosed privately with ADHD at 20 and is doing so well now. The meds work try and get them and in the meantime I would recommend a reduced timetable and keep him in any hobbies he has for his self esteem.

@Helpw0383 you sound absolutely amazing parent but you do put blockers on everything you say (and I get why as I’ve been there )

don’t focus on shared care with Gp - you ll deal with this afterwards

focus on him getting meds now, it’s very likely his life will change (my sons did)
you can find a private one where you’re seen next week even online and have meds within 2 days (I ll find you one if you need help)

you need two sources in order to get adhd assessment: classroom and home seems good enough

for assessment do not focus where he’s doing well (outside school there might be no expectations, no pressure , he might be having fun, who knows?, totally incomparable with classroom setting )

don’t be disheartened you can do it ! Right meds will change your son’s life

ADHD. Get on it now, seriously.

Right i have just had the best conversation with his school that is have ever had. We have come up with a plan that we will try until the end of year 10. If it works continue with it, if not I will pull him out at that point.

They have agreed to reduce his curriculum. We are going to drop science and currently deciding on the others. He is going to continue with English , maths and business.

The lessons he wont be taking part in he will be able to go to their hub to work quietly on extra maths and english.

Theyve also agreed any lesson that has a substitute teacher he can also go to the hub as that was a big problem.
Im very happy with this plan , so we will see how it goes

Personally I would stop all the talk and focus about school. Take him away if you can, get as far away from school in his brain as possible.

Then shift the focus onto what he wants to do. Not "after he finishes school" or phrased with any connection to school. Just begin a dialog about what sort of life would make him happy, and what could he see himself doing.

Use that as the foundation for working as a team, not against the school, but towards where he wants to go.

School clearly isn't right for him, so keeping this fight going will just end awfully for his self worth and mental health. So just say move past it, stop battling it, and instead go on to another goal.