My teen hates school & misbehaves, will college be any different?

[Whyme02830]

My son is 15. I make no excuses for him at all. . At school he is silly, disruptive and gets distracted very easily. He is in bottom sets for everything. Gets in trouble every day.

As an aside to this , he has an amazing personality, is well behaved outside of school, follows all of our of our family rules, gets on with people of all ages.

Have been in for many meetings with teachers, head of year etc. They all say how much they like him as person. But hes difficult in the classroom. I wouldnt want to teach him. They think he tries to impress others to fit in . He also attention seeks.
We have had this problem with him since nursery, 2 different primaries, and 2 different high schools. He is the common denominator in all of them.

Every day he goes off to school I am filled with anxiety waiting for the next call, next detention message. He gets sent to isolation every day. He is on an slt report permanently.

He has just over 12 months to go and I cant wait till he can leave. He will not have many options open to him due to predicted low grades. he doesnt do homework, doesnt attend detentions and will not do any revision. The staff told him yesterday that the only reason hes still there is because they like him so much.
We are going to encourage him into a trade and I hope he will do well with this.
Will the college environment be just the same as the school? It will be a vocational college elsewhere. I just want this chapter in his life to be over. Underneath the bravado is a scared overwhelmed boy who thinks he can joke and be silly his way out of learning and doing exams because he finds it hard.
We and all teaching staff are positive he has adhd and allowances are made for this. Have been through cahms twice but rejected for a referral after they meet him because he comes across so well. He cannot sit and focus in a lesson. He cannot retain the info. He cant follow instructions. When he comes home school no longer exists. Homeschooling during covid was utter hell. I was trying to get him to engage in his teachers video call lessons and he was rolling around the floor, doing hand stands, sliding off his seat etc. That's what he is like and is punished for it on a daily basis. I dont blame them as what else can they do? Im just looking for reassurance that his whole life isnt going to be written off due to this?
If he could find his passion he would excel. The entertainment business would be perfect for him as he would get praise, attention and can let off steam

In addition this effects our home life and relationship massively as anything that's happened during the day I have to address with him which is hard. He is very reactive to it and wont discuss it. Immediately goes on a downer saying everyone hates him, hes useless etc. Like I say in other areas of his life he is an amazing young man. School is just not the place for him

College will be a waste of time for him. He hasn’t valued the education he’s had which is fair enough I guess, but it unlikely he will get much from college. Get him out working in a trade he might grow up a bit and do him good.

By the way your son does sound lovely. I’ve worked with lots of cheeky ones like that. Honestly, encourage him into a trade. It will do his self esteem good to be successful at something.

College can be much more intolerant and will throw you out for bad behaviour/not doing work.

He will be given no leeway by any tradesperson who takes him on. My brother is an electrician and there is no way on earth he would tolerate that.
Has he been medicated for ADHD?

If he’s a good person and it sounds that way (teaching staff like him) don’t underestimate that. His soft skills sound just fine. Worked with loads of young lads that sound similar and do just fine because they’re decent people. It’s the antisocial, hostile ones that tend to leave school and do very badly.

Apologies about the drip responses by the way I pressed post too soon.

Does he actually want to do a trade?
Does he have any interest in plumbing, electrics, bricklaying or carpentry?

@Decacaffeinatednow

I don’t relate. I have a family full of tradesman. OPs son is misbehaving and acting up in the classroom. My brother was very similar at school. Runs his own construction business now and is the richest one out of all of us. Jack the lad joker he was. He wasn’t expelled due to teaching staff genuinely liking his character and him being no actual threat to anyone.

OPs son sounds like a similar profile. I work in education and I have huge soft spots of similar young boys. It’s the hostile ones who lack people skills entirely that tend to flounder.

What are his interests? Does he play sport, keep active, have any hobbies? Does he gGame excessively?

He seems immature so that will make any further path challenging but that could change in a few years of you can keep him engaged until 18.

If he's active, sporty then consider sports based courses, work in sports centre or once consider the army. They can offer structure and a trade whilst also learning discipline.

My 15 year old daughter is the same, hates school, no respect for the rules and doesn't want to be there. Constant uniform infringements, bunking. Wearing piercings etc. It's a nightmare and like you I just cannot condone any of it, at my wits end with her. She leaces this June. She wants to go to college and thinks she will be treated more grown up there and get to wear what she wants so she says she will knuckle down once she starts there but I just don't know what the future holds for her at this point.

Dont think some have read my full post.
Ive already said we are going to encourage him to learn a trade but he still has to go to college for this?
With regards to working with an electrician on site or something like that he would be amazing at that. Hes just done work experience and did fantastically well. Its judt within a classroom this happens. He says it feels like a pressure cooker environment building up and up .
He is not medicated for adhd as I have said he does not have a diagnosis as cahms wouldn't accept

Usually only in college for one day a week though? My niece went straight to work at 16 in construction a few years back. She got no GCSEs. I would try and look for a work based route with one day release.

@TheHouse
Did your brother have to go to college though or did he learn on the job?
There is a very important college element to trades now.

Would an apprenticeship be better? Maybe where he just does college one day a week?

@Decacaffeinatednow

He learnt on the job so he’s not a good example. My niece however went straight in at 16 working 4 days a week with 1 day at college. She did not pass her GCSEs, and did not pass the college resits. She’s now 19 and works full time in construction. Site based.

I worked at an apprenticeship college for a year. They expected 100% attendance and impeccable behaviour. It’s different to a school but they basically expect you to act as if it’s a job and how you would have to behave then.

I find that one day in college can be tolerated though. My niece grew up a bit and she was the ultimate joker, still is to be fair. But she could handle one day at college. She’s a great worker and loves her job.

Is CAMHS the right route for an ADHD diagnosis? If so then can you afford a private Ed Psych?

You didn’t answer whether he wants a trades type career. If so then look for apprenticeships where the learning requirement is job based on one day a week, rather than five days a week in college. Note however that he will have to resit E and M assuming he doesn’t get grade 4, even on an apprenticeship. Can you throw money at a tutor for these subjects? Or one of them?

Depends on the college but quite possibly. I think kids sometimes react to school because it is so flipping rule bound and the rules don't all make sense: uniform, every minute of every day accounted for, your voice not heard, teachers call you by your first name but you have to call them Mr or Ms, etc etc. it works well for some kids and badly for others.

In an environment where the rules are fewer and the consequences for bad behaviour are all his problem (eg getting chucked out) he might thrive. Some kids do.

My youngest daughter struggled massively in school but did a million times better when she went to college.

She’s autistic and very dyslexic and just didn’t suit GCSEs very well.

Went to college, retook English and Maths GCSE (passed) and did a level 3 BTECH extended diploma and is now at uni.

She suited the different/hands on style learning at college a lot more. She doesn’t cope at all well in exams, despite access arrangements, so the assignment/module style of the BTech was more in line with her learning needs.

She didn’t misbehave or mess around in school, but she was 100% more engaged and interested in learning when she went onto college (it was a subject that she was interested in for a start, plus it was in a format she understood)

College was also just a lot more grown up and relaxed in general - no uniform, attendance was taken seriously but not the be all and end all, could use the toilet when she needed to, etc, so she was a whole lot less anxious about going.

Your 15 year old DS sounds like a carbon copy of my 15 year old DS. I was getting at least 3 calls home a week from school . Each teacher really likes him but he just kept being disruptive and gets himself into trouble.
My DD went through CAMHS and was diagnosed but this time around I decided we couldn’t wait (or carry on) . He was diagnosed privately.

It’s expensive and I couldn’t afford to do it but but I borrowed the money from my mum and he was diagnosed with ADHD. There is no threshold privately.

This was about 9 months ago and he’s completely changed since he started medication..

He now gets merits in class instead of detentions. He is taking his GCSEs seriously and now looks like he’ll pass them all. He’s moved sets upwards in maths and science. We were in a completely different place 12 months ago and like you I dreaded seeing the school number come up on my phone. Home life is so much easier as his brain is more orderly. It’s like straightening out a tangle of pipe cleaners. He’s still him through.
Honestly- I now feel bad that I didn’t do it 2 years earlier. I was freaked out by the cost and I was focused on older DD.

Obviously I can’t comment on your DS but he sounds so similar to mine it’s worth pursuing further even though CAMHS said no. I think DS would have been the same with CAMHS.

Outside of school he is active, loves sports and is very social. Has lots of friends who are all lovely sensible boys.
He isnt antisocial or a trouble maker. Infact he is very sensible which makes it so sad as this doesnt carry over into school.
He is great with kids and animals and has an amazing imagination.

College can be great. Treated more grown up, good solid practical use for classroom learning.
Have a look at the 'in praise of BTECs' thread in Further Education.

@titchy I said in my OP and further comments that he will be doing a trade.
Regarding a tutor , these things are great ideas but as I said he is so rigid. School and home cannot over lap. If you sit with him to work at home he will not engage. A tutor would be a waste of time and money

Can you afford private assessment for adhd, DLD and dyslexia?

Has he seen the ed psych in school?

He will need to resit English and Math GCSE which I’m guessing he isn’t going to like.