Angry teen girl

[AEEG]

Hi. My 14 year old daughter used to be so confident and out going. Nothing fazed her. She had lovely friends all through primary and she sailed through. (She’s always been the sass queen and the one to answer back…second child syndrome but nothing major, never in my life did I think I’d have a problem with her).
As soon as she started high school things changed. She moved away from her lovely friends and went to the popular girls. With that comes a lot of bitchyness. She wasn’t used to that. She started refusing school and getting more and more angry. Changed the way she spoke (from a lovely little accent speaking properly to a chavvy angry voice) her attitude and respect towards me and her sister got worse. Then school became a bigger problem. We tried dragging her in. Didn’t work I was making her anxiety worse. Tried taking her phone/ipad. Made her worse as I was just isolating her. I changed her schools and that didn’t help. She turned 14 last Oct and stopped going to school (currently fighting for section 19 but that’s another story) I thought removing the pressure and stress of school would help. But she’s got worse, she hardly goes out now. Won’t do anything with me and her sister when she used to love our girly weekends away. Gets overwhelmed and embarrassed very very easily which comes across to others as her just being very rude as she struggles to interact. We had to leave our meal Xmas eve because she got so overwhelmed, then she gets upset. I did manage to calm her down and we went back so she is trying some of the time. When she’s with her friends she so much better and will do so much more, they give her confidence. They are lovely girls but they aren’t like her. They go to parties drinking etc and these are who she’s got the ‘new voice’ from (although I have noticed her old little nice accent coming back) they seem to be allowed to do way more than I would allow, she does go to the parties and loves them but she comes home sober as a judge and her friends are drunk. I hear her on the phone to them pretending she was drunk but she absolutely wasn’t. The councillor said she’s very lost and trying to fit in with the popular girls but that’s not really her. So she takes all her anger and frustration out on me. She doesn’t listen to a word I say although my biggest boundary is that she always answers her phone and never turns her location off. She has never ever let me down (touch wood) so the councillor says she does have respect or she would cross that boundary like her friends do but she never has. If I ask her to sit at the table for tea like we always have she won’t, she would rather not eat. So now because I want her to eat she eats in her room. Never comes and sits down stairs. I am a single self employed parent who works from home so I am very lucky I’m very flexible. I hardly go out because I give her all my time (I wouldn’t change that. She’s my priority) in 2024 me and my girls went away for the weekend 10 times and she loved everyone of those trips. I want that girl back. Now she won’t do anything with me and She speaks to me like sh1t. I honestly feel like she hates me even tho I’m so calm and I don’t react to anything. I treat her so much to try and make her feel better and I’m always telling her how proud I am of her. I always invite her everywhere I go but she’ll never come. When me and her dad was together we were part of his big family and always with cousins etc but now we’ve split (we’re still great friends) but his family don’t really bother with my girls now so she’s gone from that to me her, her sister and grandad. As I have no mum brothers sister aunties. It’s literally us. So I totally get she feels so lonely and let down. I do think she maybe has some traits of autism and she had server EBSA. I’m just so worried this will escalate. Is this just a teenage phase? I get it’s a bit more than that but will it just be hormones and growing up figuring out who she is? Will it pass as she matures and realises it’s okay to be the real her. Please tell me she will come back and not be this person she’s trying to be to fit in. Please someone give me some hope who’s been through this and out the other side and now has their lovely child back.

I definitely learnt that the hard way. I don’t react now. I just walk away. Very difficult at times but it saw another world war! And I want her to know that I get it and she’s loved. I don’t want to be screaming at her all the time when she can’t help it most of the time and already feels crap. She’s allowed friends over whenever she likes. They make her happy. Although sometimes she gets a little overwhelmed and needs to step out for a calm down. I also allow her to bring friends on the odd outing she’ll agree too as I always think we are more confident when we have a friend for support and if it gets her out who cares who’s there! Xx

Sorry to hear that, but removing social media does work.
I just wish uk could ban social media under 16. It is causing so much harm, what are we waiting for????!!!

My child started with panic disorder at 14. I didn’t know it was that until it turned into agoraphobia but poor mental health can reveal itself in different ways. In the end my daughter had to be taught through medical needs teaching service and sit her GCSEs at home. She’s now thriving at university, it can be turned around with proper help and support. Is it worth getting her assessed through a private psychiatrist? Clinical Partners are one company. Ignore the nasty comments on here op, I don’t know what drives some people to comment like that.

This description sounds like me, by the time I was mid twenties and having gone through many therapists and many psych meds, it turned out I had severe PMDD, a specific phenotype that means I’m almost allergic to progesterone. I’m mid 30s and it’s been a lifelong battle for treatment (hormone blockers and hysterectomy eventually are likely the only way). By age 30 I’m diagnosed as ND. Turns out ND girls have an extremely high risk of having PMDD. A sudden extreme change at start of puberty points to one or both of these.
It was the time I needed my mum most and she wasn’t there for me. I wasn’t spoilt or a brat, I was suffering a lot and no one knew why least myself. Facing this behaviour with anger may well do a lot of damage.

Remove her access to social media. She can have a brick phone giving her access to communicate with friends.

Hey lovely - I went through similar with my daughter who was later diagnosed with ASD. She too sailed through primary or so I thought, there were signs back then now I look but she was a master masker and primary school was so small and nurturing that she was able to cope with her ASD. Trouble started at secondary school, everything fell away. She was so sad, struggled with her identity, refused school pushed me away.
But we got through it, and she is a phenomenal human now. She never went back to school fulltime, attendence in year 11 was 23 percent. School crushed her, and caused her overwhelming anxiety and burn out. But instead of pushing her we supported her, and slowly but surely she came back to us. The school allowed her to study from home (I don’t think this is common, we were lucky) but she is so bright they wanted her grades I think. She came out with 8 GCSEs all 7s , 8s and 9s.

she is at collage now, has a great group of friends, she gets burn out still but we know the signs and it’s not personal it’s just she need time and space out. I remember in the thick of it that felt rude at times especially to my husband (he took longer to get it) but we reframed it and now when she takes her self to her room without engaging with the family after a long day, we know she is just burnt out. I have a routine now where I come in from work and go straight to her, we sit on her bed and chat and have a check in. There is no pressure.
She is genuinely, happy and thriving and copes having ASD. She wants to go to uni, she has hobby’s and a lovely boyfriend. She can’t do everything others do all the time and knows her limits. I think this is sometimes the issue, they know they struggle, they try and fit in, but can’t cope with all that the life of teenager is. She needs to understand her self more and like her self. I remember my daughter breaking down one day and saying she doesn’t fit, doesn’t feel normal and doesn’t understand why as she is trying so she hard to. She knew she was different but we didn’t have the answers. I think the ASD diagnosis really helped her, like a light bulb moment where she finally understood and instead of fighting it she embraced it and it all fell into place for her.

What I did, listened, listened hard. Loved her, guided her but didn’t push. Home schooled for a while, she asked we listened her mental health was rock bottom at this point - , we gave conditions though out of love - she had to study properly, had to get up in the mornings and had to join two activities (this is really important I think). She did all this, and then after a year she asked to try school again. We reenrolled her, it started well and she went in regularly (struggled to cope in year 11 with the pressure of it all and mostly studied from home), it was hard but it was her choice to try and I’m glad she did as she was able to sit her GCSEs. We had a supportive school though, so were lucky there. She was under CAMHS but they didn’t do a lot due to wait lists but it gave us a safety net where the school Listened -and before her official diagnosis they wrote a letter saying they suspect ASD and she is to be treated at school that she does. You have to fight it wasn’t easy but we got there and I am so proud of her, we are closer than ever now but there was a time where i felt her slipping away and pushing from me.

good luck OP you’ve both got this.

Oh and agree with the above PMDD is extremely challenging for ND girls, and has been a prominent factor throughout, made my daughter extremely depressed over angry each month and suffered extreme pain which included vomiting, she has really suffered but again has learnt to live with it and understand the signs and her body. She is on lots of meds to support this but can you imagine going through that and all the above. She needs her loving supportive mum so much.

I am sorry to hear you are going through this. You are a great mum! Have you thought about home educating her for a while maybe? That might help. It did wonders for my daughter to remove her from that toxic environment and I got back my sweet little girl. X

Unfortunately the poster, who got slammed,
was right.
@PixieDust91 I believe.
You just cannot say anything nowadays, especially about children.
I'll say my bit, although child free (47 yo, born in another country).
My generation simply didn't have either time or energy to pull stunts like this, for the fear of life and well being, if failed to comply.
Brats nowadays think they can do anything and the world owes them a good living. I wouldn't blame social media, but upbringing. You can set firm boundaries from a very young age.
If an angry teenager from my generation "changed their name" or became "non binary",
their father would yell whether they want to go to a doctor or straight away to an institution (yes, really). Needless to say, such problems were unheard of and yes, well being of parents was heavily preferred.

My experience with my daughter sounds very similar. No issues at school until secondary school 14/15, sudden anxiety and refusal to go. Missed all her GCSE’s. Tried everything, taking phone away etc, nothing worked. The anxiety escalated to suicidal idealation and an eating disorder, at 18 a psychologist suggested she be tested for autism. I never considered it. She was diagnosed and there was a big shift, I think how she was overwhelmed with feelings and couldn’t understand it and the diagnosis helped her see why she felt as she did.
She eventually returned to college when she was ready, did an access course and is now in year 2 of uni. She still gets overwhelmed and sometimes anxious, low mood, often linked to hormones but she manages and is focussed on living and has goals, something back at 14 I would never have thought possible. Keep being supportive, personally I decided not going to school was better than her trying to end her life over the anxiety of it. It’s not easy, it’s been a tough road but I would push for assessment.

And this is exactly why we have bitter dick head arrogant adults in the world like you and @PixieDust91 Thank god you don’t have kids. You’ve clearly been dragged up with hate rather than brought up with love.

i also have a 16 year old who is the most polite kind and caring teen there is. Been brought up exactly the same….with love and care. Yes I agree behavioural issues are to do with upbringing. Neurodiverse issues are not!!!!

clearly your issues are to do with the lack of love you were given. Bore off and find another post to upset people on!!! Dick head

Not the correct way to deal with it at all sorry!

No they got anorexia instead.

I picked up some ASD traits from your post, I have a similar ASD girl, senior school was the catalyst for us too. You may need a different therapist, we've found one who is very ND led and she is brilliant with my girl. Have a look into girl specific ASD info, they are very different to ASD boys. Also ND girls are more prone to PMDD which could also be an issue, try tracking her month and see if the 2 weeks leading up to her period are more problematic for her.
Birth control didn't work for my girl it brought on panic attacks, it's the synthetic progestogen in them (pretending to be progesterone) that causes the issues, it has a side effect of increasing anxiety, unlike body identical Progesterone that has a calming effect on anxiety, I'm using progesterone cream with my girl and it has eased her hormonal symptoms.

So you are a child free person with no interest in parenthood (and a clear disdain for troubled children) who thinks that young people today are 'brats' who should be threatened for not conforming. Yet you choose to spend your time on internet forums where children's issues are discussed. May I suggest that you find a better way to spend your time.

In fact I should have said STFU… 🤣🤣🤣

Oh OP I feel your pain !
been there - it’s hell ! and the turning point for DD and therefore all of us was going private -
seeing a child consultant psychiatrist who prescribed fluoxetine -
it really helped 👍👍

Worried about my dd 12 as I recognise some of the tendencies described on this thread.

What age / stage would you say is the 'start of puberty'? When they get their first period, the 6-12 months before, or earlier still? My dd doesn't have her period yet (13 in March) but has become extremely grumpy in the last few months, probably related to hormones. So in other words when is this 'switch' so I know to look out for it.

If dad is in contact still, your children need to spend time with him and the rest of the family. That is very unfair he’s taken that away from her. Your daughter is affected by the split and she’s changed friends and lost herself. She does also sound possibly ASD / ADHD.

It was 20+ years ago so my memory isn’t clear but quite sure the huge shift in behavior and personality began somewhere age 11. I possibly had my first menstruation at age 12 though. I never went back to the sweet girl I once was but became a whole new me. It was the early 2000s though and PMDD was non existent. It’s only now since maybe 5 years ago that some small studies have begun on treatment options. If and only if it is PMDD I would never go down the avenue of treating it like a psych disorder because it is not, even if the effects are psychological. Contraceptives often worsen the disorder though not in all. Specialized HRT once in your 20s is the only option for most in 2025. Specialized being precise dosis according to the patient in question given my a Harley street type gyno and not your regular local one. By the time a woman with such disorder hits 30s and is done having children she will likely choose chemical menopause for the rest of her fertile days as currently in 2025 it’s the only avenue of full control if HRT doesn’t work. And eventually a full hysterectomy no doubt as I will soon enough. I’m so glad to share any more information to know it might help any poor young girl going through what I did. The anger I had and still have is uncontrollable and it takes a lot of empathy and patience to deal with from the outside. The depression dissipated as I got older however, though not the case for everyone of course. I have a very happy successful life despite this disorder and a young child of my own though - it’s not all despair by any means :)

That still happens.

OP my opinion is that every child has their time they are challenging and for generally compliant children often this happens in the early teens. Mine were a complete ‘Mumsnet says you are a shit parent’ when they were really little but they learnt to control themselves and then grew up. Dd2 hated primary school and was a nightmare and was much better at secondary.

Her friends sound awful, is there a way for you to help her to find some better influences? If she’s home schooled are there any groups she can join with more positive influences? If she isn’t actually following them re the drinking etc that’s actually really positive imo for the longer term.

Changed the way she spoke (from a lovely little accent speaking properly to a chavvy angry voice)

I do this as part of autistic masking.

she comes home sober as a judge and her friends are drunk. I hear her on the phone to them pretending she was drunk but she absolutely wasn’t.

More possible masking. Basically, autistic masking is teen trying-to-fit-in turned up to 11, without the benefit of insight into why her peers behave like they do.

It's worth running the AQ-50 past her, if only to rule autism out.

Is she on a waiting list for an autism assessment yet? None of this is your fault. Don't remove her from school as her education needs to be their "problem". My dd was given on line learning in the end and passed 6 GCSE's after missing over a year of school.

We've been to hell and back for the last six years over this. She still won't eat at the table, and do you know what, I don't care 😊. She's doing well at college and starting to heal gently.

@Badinfocan I ask how you found out about the synthetic hormones and who prescribed the cream please? The contraceptive pill gave my daughter worse anxiety, emotions all over the place and very low mood. She had to stop taking it after a few months. The GP then suggested a progesterone only pill, saying she was probably sensitive to the synthetic oestrogen? I’ve only heard of using body identical hormones for menopause / HRT, can they be used for teen girls as well?

Being as you are child free, I can confidently say that you have no idea about how difficult it is to parent a "difficult"child, regardless of what the issue is, but particularly one who has a neurodivergent diagnosis (I am aware that this doesn't apply to @AEEG). People like you, and your expectations of how children "should" behave today (not recognising that today's society accepts children as they are, not silent or little adults), are a major part of the strain it causes because you haven't a clue how difficult it might be to persuade our children to go out and encounter other people, let alone how difficult it is for them to shut down their personas and "fit in" with your unrealistic expectations. When my children were young, I often thought that their medical conditions were not the problem, but that other people were.

As an example, I was buying my child an ice-cream. She had a huge problem talking to people she did not know - she had selective mutism. I asked which flavour she wanted and she looked at the shop assistant and clearly said "I want a green (pistachio) one". That was an amazing step forward for her and her school teachers had been working on who she would talk to - but the assistant immediately went into a diatribe about "children today, not saying please ...." She had no idea about the momentous event that had just occurred with a 6 year old child and proceeded to ensure that child did not talk in shops for another 2 or 3 years.

You, and others, are perfectly entitled to think what you like about us and our children, but please, just stop and think before sharing those thoughts with us. There may well be something more going on than you can see and your overwhelming urge to tell us how awful (substitute your own word here) we are (or our children are) and what should be done about them, may well do more harm than good. Our grannies were right when they said that if you cannot find something positive to say, say nothing.