Child services - 17 year old DS

[purplerainbows88]

Hi everyone
I would really appreciate some urgent advice from anyone that has experience or can help.
my DS is 17. He left school after GCSEs having failed them all and after much effort to help him find a way forward he started an apprenticeship a few months ago. He has severe ADHD and we believe his school life has caused him a lot of deep rooted trauma. He drinks and smokes weed non stop - it’s a daily thing (the weed) and has previously been arrested and cautioned for possession with intent to supply. We have found knives in his room which we take and never return. He then blames us for causing him “problems”. It’s an uphill battle to keep him safe and on the straight and narrow. We have other kids at home.

he’s been saying for awhile he wants to leave home. But last couple of weeks this has eacalated. He knows unequivocally we love and support him and want him to at home. I’ve offered for him to stay with my parents who would welcome him. He gets on with them but not my siblings who still live at home and who he says are judgemental.

hes now decided to go to the council and ask to be housed. He left this afternoon. He’s asked us to tell the council that we don’t want him living at home. I told him we won’t say that! He’s sent me threatening messages saying not to fuck him and tell the council about the drugs and knives

I am feeling sick and frightened for him. What is the deal with child services. What should I say if they call. How do I handle this? I want him home and safe and to get counselling. I don’t know what I am dealing with and don’t know what to do for the best.

I understand what you’re saying. I just can’t see that the police would help remedy the situation. I think the suggestion of speaking to a therapist with experience in these matters would likely be more productive if I can find a way to get him to engage. I could be wrong but that seems more intuitive to me but I have no idea who is the right individual/organisation to help. I need to spend time researching though I feel utterly drained already. DH found a good adhd coach but that’s no way good enough - he needs a therapist or psychiatrist and I’m willing to pay whatever it takes and as much as we can afford to access the right support.

I spoke with a child psychiatrist lady I thought really got this problem. Your son sounds like he's Autistic with high intelligence I imagine and very fixed thinking. The psychiatrist I saw on zoom was very up to speed on this and Assoc problems. I already know what she'd recommend meds wise but how do you engage him here? I don't know.

She is quite blunt and the wait list was frustrating. You can ask her PA if you can arrange to speak to her alone first and also at same time arrange a follow-up up with son there. He could absolutely reject this and say no.

Knowing you have tried every thing is important for you, your own well being and sense of guilt and obligation. So that's why even if he goes off the rails, you know you're trying everything in the power available to you.

I'll send you a message with the name of the lady. You might find someone's else yo book in quicker but this is a start so you see the sort of credentials to look for. She would advise on what could be a police issue and help guide that.

Thank you appreciate that.

He’s had a diagnosis of adhd a few years ago. We saw a top psychiatrist but autism was never mentioned. He’s outgoing and sociable and doesn’t display obvious signs. Why do you think that? Thanks for your help

Also what meds are you referring to? Different to adhd meds?

Oh I can't message direct it seems so id recommended typing in a search ' Autism specialising child psychiatrists '.

Even with just a diagnosis of ADHD, a good professional will spot it. It doesn't necessarily matter right now and I'm sure he'd reject any suggestions from the sound of it , but sometimes looking at all the stress and anxiety associated with being Autistic in this society is the place to look + not the ADHD.. This was well explained by the psych lady I spoke to.

Only a psychiatrist can prescribe, not psychologist.

I’ve sent you a PM. Hopefully you can reply.

Safeguarding. It might not solve the situation but if you dont try you dont know. They can bring in external agencies eg. Police, anti slavery, drug services. Its early, its possible for him to get out of this of this is what is happening. Its extremely difficult layer on and things will escalate. Its not about getting him in trouble, its safeguarding a child. And this will likely be taken much more seriously snd have more powers to disrupt before he turns 18

Because I don't know him I appreciate I'm throwing out Autistic and may be wrong.

It is massively co occurring in ADHD. There's a subset of Autistic people where they call their type of thinking PDA. My son's like this. It sounds patronising to any ND people reading so I'm sorry for that. The terms used are not ideal.

My son is outgoing, funny, loves to socialise and be the joker ( often gets it wrong and has problems socially. But on the surface it all looks ok. It isn't!). He's been told it's a PDA type brain wiring he has. It's often someone intelligent and sociable who met milestones as a child but something different was apparent. The PDA means they have got to have control and autonomy and will not ever happily be told what to do by anyone. There's a huge problem with authority and the unspoken hierarchy in society they do not respect or get at all. My son also has ADHD.

The recommended med was Fluoxetine. But sometimes ADHD meds help. I've heard positive and negative. It's trial and error. I don't know how to engage your son though. He sounds like he will do his own thing ( control and autonomy need).

I believe guilt and over protectiveness can drive enabling in mum's - where you need to actually be very firm. Lean more towards firm, being accountable and then his choices are his own making.

His younger sibling has noticed that DS has taken some of his best clothes. He’s asked for them back and he’s had a reply saying he’s coming home to take his bedding and other things after he finishes work.

i plan to send him this message. It’s how DH and I feel and I feel I need to draw a line. Any thoughts on this. I haven’t slept and really struggling to keep a clear head. Am I being unreasonable with this?

“We are willing to talk and support you, including helping you find somewhere to live if that’s what you want. But the way you spoke and behaved was not acceptable. You crossed a line. Before anything moves forward, including you coming back to collect things that aren’t yours you need to apologise.

You are asking for independence, and we respect that. Independence also means taking responsibility for your actions and not assuming you can take whatever you want from the house. (Your siblings) things must be returned.

Once you apologise and we can have a respectful conversation, we will discuss what you need and how we can support you. Until then, nothing further will be taken from the house so please don’t try to turn up to take them.”

Oh OP, I don’t know. The message may be a red rag to a bull.
Not at all an expert but I do have a ND teen DS with MH issues.

He has to be in a place where he can ‘hear’ what you’re saying iyswim. It very much sounds like he’s not in that place right now.

Thanks. What are MH issues?

I am counting on the fact that he would have calmed down overnight. He told his brother he’s bring his stuff back. Wanting to leave home is not new and I don’t think that’s a knee jerk - though the rush to do so probably is. The thing is I feel (not having had professional advice) that I have to have some boundaries. He’s vulnerable but he’s also 17 and trying to develop his independence. I feel he needs to take accountability for that. He can’t have it every which way. But I don’t know what’s right. I’ve tried to be clear and fair with him, letting him know we will support him but there are boundaries.

Sorry, by MH I meant mental health.

OP I didn't mean contact his employer, I meant contact the training provider who he is doing his apprenticeship with. They have safeguarding people etc. It should not impact his job one bit if you contact them for support. Feel free to PM me if you need help if finding out who this is. You are doing really really well in such an emotional and stressful time.

I’ve tried to be clear and fair with him, letting him know we will support him but there are boundaries.

I know, but I don’t think he sounds mature enough to accept what you’re saying…especially in the form of a message sent like that. What he hears may he different to what you’re saying.

I fear it would push him further away and I don’t think that’s what you want.

I think the message is too confrontational an approach personally. Find another way to communicate if you can.

As I say, I’m not an expert but that message definitely wouldn’t work with my DC, that’s all I’m going on.

OP, you absolutely must "meddle". Your son's wishes are not more important than the safety of other people. Please tell the police and children's services about the knives. Tell them you don't know what to do. Tell them about his manipulative behaviour and threats.If you choose not to, then you are not protecting your other children. All the coaching and therapy in the world will be too little, too late, should your son decide to use one of those knives on someone else, or even on himself.

OP, knowing how difficult any negotiation is myself on this position - your son will not hear that message. It won't go in.

In terms of boundaries - I would immediately set material physical ones. That means a lock on doors of your other kids and your own room. You can get something sorted asap. I'd explain to your other DS, can he hold tight on the clothes he's lost and you'll work on that in very good time. For now, prevent further access with a simple lock to doors or cupboards. I know it feels a lot but you are removing another stress.

Ref knives, if you haven't already and can access, they need to be gone. I would be locking drawers and have say only 2 cooking knives in kitchen you can keep an eye on.

He will not listen to your concerns at all until he really wants something from you so I would forget it. He will be very angry and overwhelmed so it's a waste of time I believe.

The things I would concentrate on only with him are, knives, drugs in the house and stopping him robbing by locking things.

I feel you are going to have to sit back and let this play out sadly. I don't believe he is going to necessarily hurt anyone other than himself here. But I appreciate i don't know him and can't guarantee it.

@purplerainbows88
This must be so difficult.

You obviously really love him and you’re an amazing mum.
I hope things calm down very soon.

He came home to get some of his stuff but he did reply to my message and apologise for since spoke. Said it was wrong and won’t happen again and he was sorry but that it doesn’t change anything. I told him that was fine and we would support him if that’s what he wants to do. He was in a foul mood when he came home. I offered him dinner - he sheepishly said yes please but didn’t eat much. I gave him some food to take with (snacky things to keep in his bag) and then he went off. Not heard from him since apart from replying to my message asking how he was over the weekend and he replied “good how are you?” I’ve backed off. I know he went to work this morning (I can see his oyster usage which I top up for him) and I’m hoping he is in a better head space having been left alone.

I need to figure out a plan with him about living arrangements and I’d like to insist that he has some therapy of sorts which may use as bargaining power if we help fund a room. I can’t see how he could possibly afford to live otherwise. I’m just stuck on the realistic options.

meanwhile the council have not called. Should I expect them to? If he 17 year old asked to be housed presumably they have to contact the parents? But in this country I wouldn’t be surprised…

curious as to how long he will hold out before coming home at least to talk. He can’t sleep on a friends sofa indefinitely

Also, I don’t feel the need to lock stuff away. He brought his siblings stuff back and he doesn’t generally take stuff. So in the circumstances I’d feel mean.

OP,
Big hugs. This sounds so hard and you are are coping with it (well no bloody choice I know!)
My DD in the depths of her poor MH wanted to leave home too. She was hassling camhs and social services to find her a place. She didn't have any substance issues but the thought of being home reminded her of all her problems and she felt suffocated. Sadly we didn't have relatives we could send her for a few days of change of scene. She was also fed up of is and our inability to cope with her mental state..things are still bad for us but atleast she is not wanting to leave home repeatedly.
I cannot imagine how worried you must be.
Hang in there and hopefully he will find a way through things.
Look after yourself if you can
Xx

In all honesty, I would do what he wants and I would write the letter or just tell them that yes you don’t want him there anymore. The alternative is that he resent you and becomes worse and worse. At 17 the local authority has a duty to House him and this can help him get a permanent place For his himself rather than having to stay with friends and sofa surf and potentially live in unsafe environments. I know it’s not ideal, and I know you want him in your house, but it doesn’t look like that’s happening anyway. You saying that you don’t want him in your house will not make you a bad parent.

If it comes to that we’d sooner help him rent a safe place than tell social services that we don’t want our child at home. I would like to access support for him but I can’t see how we can do that without transparency. It probably it best he has some space and independence but in as safe a way as possible but just trying to figure our the housing options. If he paid towards the rent he’d have independence and we’d still be able to give him the support he needs - perhaps even agree to some external input. I’m not going to leave him to the authorities.

Op,I sympathise. My d's 18 with add has had the most awful two years and I've almost had a nervous breakdown trying to support demanding mum.
He kept telling me I cared too much. Which is hard to hear when he is out until 4am, floating that he has tried come and does ket,self harms and wants to die.
Last month,after a disastrous week and he being late for work,after I got him up( he went back to sleep) i called his work and explained that he was depressed and can be change his shifts to evening as I couldn't cope. His boss took him aside and had a chat,advised counselling and explained how his childhood was difficult and the crew at the restaurant were like be family. Just telling someone,the relief was so massive. I know you may not be able to tell your sons work but perhaps Theresa uncle or family friend he would listen to?
Son has had three sessions with the counsellor and I see changes. He even washed his own clothes. Says he will always somewhere as it relaxes him but I've backed off and just nod. D's is a bit pleasant to live with over the last few weeks.
all the best

I agree with some posters. Be very careful that he is not being groomed for county lines. They make ‘ friends with them’. Turn them against their family. Get them addicted to weed or otherwise. Say they are in debt and owe them.Threaten to harm their families unless they move into a flat, living in the worst areas and effectively become a slave and exposed to awful things. If there are any local drug charities, they might listen to a drug worker. They may be scared of repercussions and not see a way out. Even just making him aware that this goes on just in case he is ever in this unfortunate position. I really hope he is safe.

I’m sorry you’ve had such a hard time too - that sounds challenging and very similar in lots of ways. My Ds has said the exact same thing to me “mum you care too much”. A counsellor told me that part of their pain is knowing how much they are hurting us but can’t do anything to change it right now - we just have to give them as much love and support and be there for them when they fall. It is so hard.

But wonderful that the tide is turning for your DS and great to hear that counselling has helped - I’m desperate to get mine to speak to someone. I believe he is crying out to be heard. All the best to you and your DS