16 year old with awful attitude

[chickencuddles]

Any tips would be welcome... 16 year old son, did well (but not up to school's predictions) in his gcses, but was a mammoth family effort to get him through them.
Now, 4 weeks into A levels and have received emails from teachers to say he is disengaged, sloppy homework, poor attitude (in what we understand are his 3 'favourite' subjects). We've taken away his PC and said we will ask for updated reports before half term, with a view to him having it back if he can get back on track. (Having said that, his test results are high, the teachers are more worried about engagement and homework standards.)
He just doesn't seem to care, or understand the consequences of not trying at school. He is lazy, complacent and arrogant, and thinks that everyone else is the problem, not his attitude. as parents we have modelled the value of working hard in life to him.
He is probably able to get A*s, too early to say what he is on track for at this time, but that's not really the point. I guess the point is that he is falling well short of what he is capable of. Nothing we say at home inspires him to try harder or apply himself! He is at an excellent school, but even with the most supportive teachers and parents, if he isn't self motivated, he will fail at some point.
I guess my question is, do we just say, right son it's over to you now, we've done all we can to encourage you and you've not listen to a fucking word of it because you know best, or is there something more useful that we can say/do? I can't go through the next 2 years like this, with school chasing us about poor homework, lack of engagement etc, and if all the pushing comes from us, he will end up at a university and fail immediately because he doesn't know how to push himself! I'm honestly baffled at how a clever kid can be so stupid. I have a psychology post grad degree, so I know his brain isn't properly developed yet, but all his friends seem to be engaged and managing well, even with their 16 year old brains. Any advice would be very welcome! If anyone has been through anything similar I would love to hear what the secret to getting through this stage is.

Have you asked him whether he wants to do A levels? You seem to have jumped to punishing him without asking him what he wants. A levels are difficult, and even if he has the ability, unless he is academic its pointless to push him down a route he doesn’t want to take.

Perhaps he would be more suited to T levels/BTEC with continuous coursework and hands on practical learning. He can still get a Uni place if he wanted, but a different route in.

He sounds like a typical 16 yo.

It's all very well saying he COULD get straight As. Does he NEED straight As to do what he wants next? If he wants to study vet science at Oxbridge then it's probably worth reminding him he needs to reconsider his dreams if he isn't planning to do some work. If not then he might be prioritising having some fun whilst getting "good enough" grades.

As for school, I'd back off on it and let them manage his behaviour in school. If he's rude and doesn't do his homework he'll face consequences there and all you need to do is make sure he knows you support the school in that.

These are all valid points, thank you. He got 8s and 9s in most of his GCSEs, which is obviously excellent. But this involved me sitting next to him for endless weeks whilst he revised. So I would say he is suited to A levels, academically, and his choices of maths, music and computing are things that he shows a high level of ability for. He says he wants to go to uni, he says he wants to work in finance, he says he wants to be successful. All whilst not having to lift a finger for it. There just seems a bit of a chasm between what he wants and what he is prepared to do, effort wise. I think we should probably just say it's up to you now. It's all very complicated when you try to second guess what his thought process is behind all of this.

I think he has no realisation of how failing A levels will set him back if he has to retake them. But I agree all you can do is let him sort it out. Tell him you’re expecting him to do well enough to go to a decent uni otherwise he will need a job at 18 and to either move out or pay rent. But there is only so much you can do. At 16/17 you can’t sit there for months with him while he revises

I really wouldn’t be removing his possessions btw. You quite literally give him nothing to lose an it won’t result in what you want it to result in.

return his computer and start talking to him. Tell him your expectations, ask him if he’s truly happy with his current choices and , if he is, just get off his back a little bit. You’ve set out what you expect and the rest is up to him.

hes 16.. very normal

I did say thay to my husband just now, taking his PC away is like punishing a 6 year old, it was definitely a knee jerk reaction to the brutal email I received from school. And if he works harder over the next fortnight, then presumably that is to get his PC back and not because he cares about doing well at school. I think a lot of his attitude is bravado. If I pretend not to try then if I fail it's not my fault...

I’d definitely give him his pc back and speak to him respectfully. Once things are removed from him barriers will go up and there will be no getting through to him.

I think you did the right thing, coaxing him through his GCSEs, these results stay with him forever.
Now though, it's really on him, and if he is in trouble at school, then that has to be between school and him.

He might start to put in a bit more work if he doesn't do so well in mocks, etc. So far, his lack of work has worked out fine.

Yes that's probably sensible. I think he is quite spoilt in many ways. He goes to a great private school, we have a nice lifestyle, and whilst he doesn't ask for much, he has everything he 'needs'. There's no motivation from that perspective. I had the opposite upbringing and feel very fortunate to be able to provide him with the things I didn't have. But I had more of an incentive to get myself in a decent position. I find parenting so complicated. My other son is the complete opposite, works hard, isn't as academic, but is a total delight and can see how hard work gets results.

He needs to “fail” on his own terms now. I think what he hasn’t learned is how to learn independently and he will find that out at college.

Give him a bit of space. See what he does with it.

My eldest was absolutely about doing the bare minimum during year 12 but did step up in year 13. Not sure what changed but something snapped inside him. Do you think it might be worth taking him to a few university open days soonish? You never know it might motivate him to get a feel as to why he might want to work for A levels. I did this with mine and we looked at the kind of jobs he might get otherwise and the rates of pay.
He might decide he’s not that bothered about being a student - but might well decide it sounds more fun than going straight into work.

Can I give thr perspective that you may not need to over think or over react to this

Im old now but when I was 16 I wss similar. Bright but focused only on parties and boyfriends. I was out clubbing all weekend and did the bare minimum at sixth form college.

One day my tutor pulled me in and said we are going to kick you off the course. I was shocked and pulled myself into gear and did well in my a levels.

You are describing a totally normal teenager. What sort of dull boy would it be who was fully engaged and focused on school work at this age.

He sounds. Extremely high achieving if he got 8s and 9s (maybe normal in your world.but not what most children achieve)

Id back off and if he slips in marks point out what that means for uni choices etc

But it doesnt sound particularly serious and yes why shouldn't he learn from his own mistakes at this age

‘He got 8s and 9s in most of his GCSEs, which is obviously excellent. But this involved me sitting next to him for endless weeks whilst he revised. So I would say he is suited to A levels, academically’

I think the fact that you had to sit next to him for weeks whilst he revised, shows he’s not at all suited to ALevels just yet. That’s sort of like an 11yr olds behaviour when you want them to do homework. Which batches the behaviour his A Level teachers are seeing.

Maybe he needs a year out working / doing an apprenticeship. Then he can decide after that whatever he’d prefer to do.

Thank you. I think what I meant is that he can 'do' the work, but his personality as it currently stands, isn't suited to A levels. I think a discussion with the head of year about whether he stays on or not might be sensible. He has so much growing up to do still, and is way behind his peers in this sense. Part of me worries that children seem to get fewer chances these days and everything is so competitive compared to when I was young. We just used to hand out our (very basic) cvs on a Saturday and you'd have a job the following Saturday. Nowadays kids seem to have to jump through so many hoops to get anywhere. You need work experience to get work experience. It just seems a tough time to be a teen!

I’m not an advocate of helicopter parenting, but he needs to have a study routine in place and be following it. How much studying is he actually doing?

I would set him a number of hours of study you expect on weekdays/weekends and make clear he will have no privileges (phone/computer/going out) if they’re not completed.

Dull boy? What a stupid silly thing to say.

You can be a conscientious student and also enjoy life.

Good luck OP!

Unless you are planning to go to University with him and keep up the nagging I would drop the rope and let him fail if that is what he does. They're his exams, it's his life, he knows what is required and is choosing not to engage. I'd change tack and say you're leaving him to it but if he doesn't improve by xmas he has to leave and get a job because you're not funding him to waste time.

I think what I meant is that he can 'do' the work, but his personality as it currently stands, isn't suited to A levels. I think a discussion with the head of year about whether he stays on or not might be sensible.

With him there I think this may well be sensible - there are other qualifications that could get him still to uni if he wants that or he can go later.

DS needed a lot of support in GCSE exams - but his school was a mess revolving door of teahcers or just none in one core subject and one less importnat one - notes were an utter mess.

DS asked for help - got shown how to revise and sat with and he was off on his own for A-levels. He found he needed to work in public areas so used the college library extensively.

I do not think you can push through A-levels with reluctant student - possibly with lots of tutors - as we had DD1 was a motivate A-level student but struggling one and that was a huge strain on us all.

I’d leave him to it, otherwise you are going to have two years of everyone being miserable and resenting each other. It’s his life and it’s up to him what he does. I did this with my kids and while I did offer extra support to my kids when they worked hard I didn’t ever nag, or guilt trip them over their work. I was lucky in that none of my four kids were too lazy and none bombed (althoughI suspect one of my sons could have got better marks than he did if he had worked harder). I believe it’s up to them. They are now in their late 20’s and early 30’s and I’m happy I took the approach I did. I managed to maintain a great relationship with all four of my kids which I think has meant that they have respected my opinion far more than they would have had I been a naggy guilt trip parent. I really dislike the idea of being ‘dissapointed’ in someone else’s decisions in life. Obviously if they did something bad like shoplifted I’d be justified in being dissapointed but being dissapointed because they chose not to work as hard as they could have in their school work isn’t something I wanted to do.

If they worked hard I did make sure that I made things easy for them. I’d do things such as give them lifts to friends and get food in that they liked.

Even if your son messes up his A levels there will be lots of opportunities for him if he is a bright lad. It’s not the easiest route but most of my kids friends who bombed A’levels are now doing really well. They just took longer to get their act together.

I would leave him to it.

most schools and sixth forms have a minimum grade you need to get at the end of year 12 to proceed to year 13. There’s three years of funding for level 3 qualifications which a levels are. So if he fucks this year up he can restart year 12 or switch to another course.

it’s a good point for him to learn about failing because the consequences are not very serious.

Thanks all. Reading through the suggestions, some suggest leaving him to it, as it's his life to lead and perhaps he will learn from his mistakes, and others suggest continuing to push a bit. I think this is why parenting is so hard, there are a number of viable options, but working out which one might be the most effective is an almost impossible challenge! We're backing off until half term arrives, as they get a report then, and there's a parents' evening soon after. I just don't want to be in a position in 5 years time when it's all potentially gone tits up and he's saying, why didn't you push me harder...? 😂but I know you learn the most from your mistakes!

@SleepQuest33 of course you can be hard working and fun - I just think it's really important with teenagers not to judge them for really really normal teen attitudes and behaviour. and for SOME teens that means being distracted, focused on things other than work some /a lot of the time!

We can still try to persuade them /support better habits etc - but - it's the judgement I think is unhelpful.

I would leave him to it and seek to have better conversations. Does he feel loved? Can you talk? Can you both listen? If so he should be fine and if not work in these first.

Does he know what he wants to do later? Ds was similar until he found a degree he liked the sound of. We went to a couple of uni days and very happily, the uni he loved needs high grades. Since then he’s been like a different boy. I also find that when he does well at school it motivates him. Definitely give his PC back though