Should days out still be this difficult?!

[GoldOP]

Dh and I decided to have a day out with the dog today and make the most of the nice weather at the coast. We invited our 2 teens dd 19 and ds 17, both decided they wanted to come and ds brought his girlfriend along.
All was ok until the dog covered dd’s white pants and white trainers in clay like sand off the beach and dd’s mood just erupted. She was swearing at the dog like she knew what she’d done wrong.
dd then wanted chips so myself and her walked to the chippy, she offered to pay which was a nice treat (she works full time, apprenticeship wage) when we got back to the beach with chips, sausages, curry sauce gravy she laid it all out on the blanket and told everyone to help themselves but told ds he couldn’t have any (but his gf could)
I questioned why this was and she said it was because he never offers to buy her food. I explained he is at college and only has a part time job earning a third what she does a month but she dug her heels in and wouldn’t let him eat anything.
As a consequence a whole tray of chips went cold, got covered in sand and put in the bin which ds could have just eaten? Ds then said he was going buying his own and went off with his gf and we didn’t see them again until we were ready to come home.
This kind of scenario is nothing new, dd has always been challenging with her behaviour but I had hoped she had matured somewhat as she turns 20 this year but clearly not. She has just had a major friendship break up with her best friend and after seeing her attitude and behaviour today I’m not surprised her friend has ‘dumped’ her if this is how she treats people.
She wants to come on holiday with us in the summer,( i suspect due to having no bf or friends to go with) but I am not sure we could put up with her moods/ attitude for a whole week/10 days.
I honestly thought by this age spending time with the kids would be more pleasurable and less stressful than when they were younger, feel drained by what should have been a nice few hours out the house.

That does sound difficult. I also don’t understand why you all let the chips go to waste / her control that situation. I would have just overruled her and told ds to eat.

The fact that none of you felt you could do that suggests quite an unhealthy dynamic that needs some unpicking. Time to work out exactly what you need from dd & to have a frank conversation with her?

The format ‘I noticed / felt x which is a problem because y. The solution is z’ can be quite helpful for this type of conversation.

They should know better than to be arseholes. Were they brought up like that?

I told him to get some chips after she had said he couldn’t have any, she moved them out of his reach right on the end of the blanket, the dog then stuck her face in them and covered them in sand as she walked past so not fit for anyone to eat. Myself and dh tried to talk to dd calmly about how the situation could have been avoided but she just shuts you down.
Ive literally just tried again to speak with her and she can’t see logic, that allowing him to have just a few chips could’ve avoided bad feeling all she says is he annoys her by never buying her food 🤦🏽‍♀️

Sounds to me like she's taking out her frustration of friendship fallout on her brother?

If they’d been brought up to behave like that then I wouldn’t be finding her behaviour unacceptable would I?

I would have been very annoyed with her and called her out straight away. Are you saying you all eat the chips in-front of him? I find that hard to believe.

Quite possibly, it’s even occurred to me she might be a little jealous of him as he’s been with his gf over a year and she’s had 1 bf which didn’t last long. She seems to get on fine with his gf but her demeanour poss changed once she found out the gf was coming today so perhaps she just wanted family time.

Myself and dh had a few chips but once we realised she was actually serious about not letting ds have any I told her not to be ridiculous and told him to get some. It was at this point she moved them to the edge of the blanket and the dog thought this was her invitation to dig in and stuck her face in the tray.
dd then finished the other untouched by the dog tray herself and ds went off to buy his own. By that point mine and dh’s appetites had gone anyway.

Gosh. Your DD sounds like hard work. Is there some background info that would explain this?
Some people are 'higher maintenance' than others but your DD sounds like an unpredictable basket case.

You've obviously done something right if all three wanted to come along for a walk at the beach in March. Your daughter sounds immature. I guess you have to just keep reminding her that there will be times when someone shares with her and that makes her feel loved.

They? The DS doesn’t sound to of done anything wrong.

Can you explain what 'she dug her heals in' looks like? Why did you try to talk to her calmly after she'd been an absolute arsehole? She's 19 not 3 and is absolutely old enough to be told that she is behaving awfully. If she was behaving like that I'd have made clear she was being awful and then if she refused to change tact I'd have walked off with ds and made clear you were off to buy your own chips that everyone was welcome too.

Yep I think immaturity hits the nail on the head, prob explains why her friend has had enough.

I mean she dug her heels in by not budging on allowing him some chips despite my telling him to get some she just kept saying “no he’s not having any” then they got ruined.
I tried to stay calm as previous experience of confrontations with dd mean I have learned that losing my shit doesn’t generally help to diffuse situations so I naively thought that now she’s older a calmer approach may work, clearly not.
I’m concerned for her more than anything and wonder if there may be some mental health issues going on or just an unbelievable amount of immaturity.

I cant really understand how you let her get away with this, why didnt you just give your own chips to Ds? Or why didnt you all walk off and leave her with all the chips and buy new ? I would give my teen the biggest bollocking if he behaved like that.

Well, have you even considered she might be in the right if her brother's constantly stingy? I know tight fistedness is a trait I can't stand in anybody. Maybe she's just had enough?

I can easily imagine this with my 17 year old DD, who's also the eldest (and also loses friends in a big way, though she gains them too—a flip side to her emotional immaturity is that she can be very fun). For those saying they would have just told her off, if I 'bollocked' my DD in that situation it would be like throwing petrol onto a fire. She's dopamine seeking, escalating things to get that big emotional hit, and so when I see her mood turn I try to stay calm. I don't think you did anything wrong OP. Sorry your day out was ruined. If you haven't already I'd let her know when everything is calm that the behaviour spoiled your day, and I'd be honest about the holiday too, that you worry her moods will ruin it.

How does your son feel about his sisters behaviour in general?

This reminds me of my sister. Her behaviour and moods were so domineering and she'd "punish" my parents with the silent treatment and bitchy comebacks that they were left walking on egg shells and rarely pulling her up on her vile behaviour. She's in her forties now, and she's not changed!

I certainly felt very pushed aside and like my feelings didn't matter, all to avoid a dumpster fire situation if they were to dare put her in her place for being awful.

I don't have much advice but just wanted to suggest regular check ins with your son to see how he is. It's awful being in the firing line constantly!

Just don't invite her out if she doesn't behave nicely. I wouldn't take her on holiday either. I think my parents stopped inviting me at about 16.

Apprentices get quite well paid imo - she was being tight.

I wonder if it might have been better to leave the girlfriend at home? I remember it introducing an awkward dynamic when my much older sibling began bringing her friend (later spouse) into family situations. Obviously I was young at the time (15-16) so struggled to see the bigger picture that they were becoming part of the family. But your DS is pretty young so it’s not like she needs to go everywhere with him, is it? I think on this occasion the disadvantage of potential awkwardness with your DD (I guess it was a bit cramped in the car too?) outweighs the benefit of giving his girlfriend a day out.

Your DD behaved horribly (I would have told her to walk it off or sit in the car after the dog swearing - the dog sounds like a bit of a pain too but I am sure you can forgive him!) but she was the only one there without ‘someone’ and perhaps felt acutely aware of that fact. However, there is still something very mean-spirited in her bringing up a grudge about previous food purchases (when DS doesn’t have an income) and holding that over him in a situation with onlookers.

Thank you for understanding, we’ve been in similar situations with her mood over many years and now that she’s an adult herself I wanted to try a calmer approach and reason with her as opposed to bollocking her.
We spoke last night when home and while she accepted the whole episode had put a sour taste on the day she just wouldn’t stop going on about him never buying her food.
Like your daughter she makes friends easily, she’s loud, fun, confident and feisty. Unfortunately none of them ever seem to last and why would they, if we as her family who love her find the behaviour challenging why would people who can walk away put up with it long term?

I think after this kind of experience where they've been ruled by their emotions, comes a lot of shame. Shame is a difficult emotion to navigate, and most of us try to avoid it. Her still going on about how her brother never buys food is a way of controlling the narrative so she doesn't have to take the full brunt of the shame and wrongdoing. I often feel like tearing my hair out when my DD tries in desperation to blame anything/one but herself.

And yes, I agree about the friends, I try to be understanding and kind when a friendship implodes, but I do think the same as you.

I suspect there was an element of my daughter maybe trying to show him up in front of his gf and that may boil down to jealousy. She’s almost 20 though not a baby, if her friendship hadn’t broken down I have no doubt she’d have been asking if her friend could come too as we’ve previously taken them all out.
The weather was lovely, we just wanted to give them all the option of getting out the house for a few hours and don’t see why my ds can’t bring his gf along just because his sister hasn’t got the emotional maturity to deal with it.
The dog was just being a typical dog, my dd put the tray of chips in front of her to get them away from ds and dog misread this as a cue for her to eat them 😂

This is where gentle parenting gets you. What a selfish woman she is, because she's a woman not a child.

Well, i would have been explaining how selfish that was of her, and either told DS to dig in or given him cash to go and get his own.

But. The dynamics are clearly not good between them at the moment, so i would only go out with them individually (include DS gf if you like) and not together. I'd also be saying "no" to the holiday unless she "signs up" to a code of behaviour.