DD13 self harmed and says she's suicidal - but we think it's copycat behaviour

[bohemianwrapsody]

I'm hoping that somebody may have gone through something similar. DD is nearly 14, has an autism diagnosis (loathe to use "high functioning" but she's bright, independent, at a girls' grammar school).

A week ago, the school contacted us to say that she's been self harming, having suicidal thoughts & restricting her eating. She told them she's felt like this since Xmas. She didn't disclose this to them willingly - she'd told a friend who in turn told their mum, who thankfully contacted the school.

This has come as a massive shock to DH and I. She's an only child, we're both very present parents and we haven't noticed any change whatsoever in her behaviour or mood. She's really happy at home - bounces around, we laugh and joke together all the time, we play games together, chat, watch comedy etc etc. She has been in no way withdrawn.

What it does coincide with is her falling out with her best friend who was in the year below, y8, and becoming closer to a group of girls in y10. Who funnily enough, have either self harmed in the past or still are.

We know that DD cut her arms a week ago - she refused to show us but eventually I caught sight of several cuts on both arms. Unusually, she has been wearing long sleeves all week and avoiding the shower (ironically she is pain averse, and I know she's been worried about the cuts stinging). DH and I do not think she had ever self harmed before that, as she usually wears vest tops and we've never seen anything.

I checked her phone for the first time in ages (stupidly I had thought she was happy and settled and there was no need - lesson learned) and although she's been careful to delete her google history, what she doesn't realise I can access is her chatgpt history. She's been asking things like "what is self harm", "does self harm hurt", "where do people self harm".

As I say she is actually very pain averse so I know she wouldn't have decided to self harm in a vacuum. She'd like to have pierced ears, but is scared of having them done so wears clip ons. She's now refused her y9 vaccinations twice, even with numbing cream, because she's scared of it hurting.

She's told her friends some outlandish things, such as she took an overdose last weekend whilst DH and I were out...she's never swallowed a pill in her life because she's scared to. When she was prescribed antibiotics recently she had to have them in liquid form. When we left she was fine, and when we got back 2 hours later, she was mentally and physically fine. After reading these messages we obviously asked her, and she maintained that yes she had taken an overdose, but refused to tell us what she'd taken or how much. DH and I are as certain as we can be that it never happened.

She's told friends that she has an eating disorder, yet at home she eats loads. (and pretty certain she's not purging, as we're in a small house with one toilet, and I'm sure I would have heard or noticed.)

Thank you if you're still reading! DH and I believe that she isn't suicidal, and was completely ignorant of self harm until she became friends with these older girls. But obviously she has self harmed now. We think that she is enjoying the attention, care and validation they're giving her (they're not encouraging her in the messages - very much the opposite. but lots of talk about their own self harm) We think that she hadn't counted on this reaching the school and then us, and is now in too deep to back out. We have very gently tried to intimate this to her - we've been honest that we don't think she took an overdose - but she doubles down and gets angry. The rest of the time since we found out, she's 100% happy with us.

What the hell do we do? We're waiting to hear back from CAHMS but I suspect there will be a long waiting list. She clearly needs to talk to somebody but to try and unpick all of this - we don't want her being pushed further into the persona we believe she's created.

Hi Op. My daughter is autistic and I work with girls like this so - I just want to say.

1. I think you need to take this seriously. I absolutely understand what you mean about it coming out of nowhere but you seem to be suggesting she is making this up and I think that is a dangerous approach to take.
2. she may be very high masking so while appearing fine in school is carrying huge weight from that and it's coming out in self harm
3. Has she ever talked about masking, does she understand what it is to be autistic in a neurotypical / high achieving environment?
4. If you can afford it or can get family to help - pay for help and don't wait for CAHMS

I always think of Molly rose russell - who kkilled herself after being exposed to harmful content on instagram - it's so horrific what our kids are being exposed to.

But she may be struggling more than it appears on the surface - you can get autistic specialist counsellors who work with children with this presentation

if it's possible I would find a clinical psychologist with autism experience NOT a counsellor (anyone can be a counsellor) - CP has years of training and experience.

Completely understand where you are coming from OP. We had the same sort of thing you are describing with our daughter when she turned 14/15. Had always been a quiet, well behaved child with some childhood issues that we considered not particularly the norm but thought it was due to struggling academically at school. She tried so hard to get better grades in high school, like her friends who were very high achievers but it just didn't click with her and that's when she (we believe) decided to hang around with the more unstable kids who were badly behaved and tbh probably more fun than her previous studious peers. This is when she began drinking,vaping,smoking weed and self-harming. We were devastated and were so scared for her and always thought we'd been fairly decent parents and she came from a loving home, which would get her through her teens without too much trouble but how wrong we were. We had 3 years of hell, constant phone calls from the school, had to change schools, social services were involved because a lot of the attention seeking stories she told about us and other things. She was heavily involved with these kids who all had a lot of instability in their lives and who had parental troubles and who also self-harmed etc and we were the evil ones trying to keep her safe. She didn't really fit in with her old friends anymore so it was easier and more exciting to be with these kids and gave her an excuse to mess about at school. I don't blame everything on them as she had her own mind but never underestimate the power of peer pressure at this age. She is on the ADHD waiting list now as the new school she moved to and her gp believe this is a lot to do with her behaviour and mental health issues. She is now 18, works full time, passed her driving test, is going to travel alone and is 100% better with us now. I do believe coming out of education and not having the stress of school life and peer pressure and not really fitting in, has had a massive positive impact. From my own experience I would say being ND becomes so noticeable during the teen years and is very hard to navigate. Try to keep your relationship as fun as possible. We struggled with this because we were so worried and stressed but this pushed her more to the "fun" friends. Keep communicating. Love bomb (we were surprised how this helped nip any angry and negative feelings from both sides in the bud) Take it seriously as sometimes it's a cry for help and can easily go too far but sometimes it is for attention or to fit in as a lot of kids seem to be doing it. It's a very hard time for all of you and I feel for you but you'll be surprised how much of an impact you have had and still have on her which will get her and yourselves through the other side. I'm not sure if this helps at all but remember how bereft and alone I was at the start of it all and scrolled for hours trying to find similar stories I could relate to. One other thing is look after yourself. It is very easy to get weighed down with it all and start to struggle with your own mental health.

I think at this point you need to tread carefully.

If you double down on not believing what she is saying you will drive her further away from you. Self harming can be contagious and it is quite possible she can persuade herself into restricting eating and taking overdoses.

In your shoes I would go with the "we want to support you and help you be happy" line.

Be aware as well that the face she presents to you is not necessarily the whole truth. Many ND teens do really struggle at school and can be very very anxious about friendship issues but don't share this with their parents.

You need to listen to what she is trying to say - this age is hard and taking her diagnosis into the mix it is going to be harder

we took DD at a similar age to see a clinical psychologist it wasn’t cheap but it really helped her sort everything out in her head - it also helped a friend of hers as well

and don’t apportion blame to anybody the world is hard for teenagers trying to find their way

Thanks for the replies. It's just so hard because it's 100% coincided with her getting in with this older group, and the fact that she's been making the "what is self harm" etc searches. We feel that until a few weeks ago suicide and self harm weren't on her radar. I know she lies to them over messages because I've read outlandish stories that she said happened at primary school, that absolutely never did.

We've been spending lots of time together as a family as normal, and the good sign is she instigates it too, for example suggesting we play board games after tea. And she just seems so happy.

We've told her we're here for her and have tried to gently get her to open up about what has triggered suicidal thoughts but she refuses to tell us anything at all.

We will look into a clinical psychologist definitely.

Dd had some horrific friendship breakdown a few years ago. And her behaviour was terrible. She had her phone removed for a month... She transformed.... Adding in your dd has asd I would suggest reduced access to her phone/Google... . . Dd also self harmed years later. Cahms confirmed she likely had long Covid showing as depressed episodes... She got nothing from the sessions as she had nothing to say.. Genuinely was fine.
Peer pressure at play here imo op .

I think your DDs behaviour is more common than you think.
There’s a lot to be said about teen girls wanting to belong so doing or saying things that would worry us. Speak to the school, ask for support but also get her phone use monitored very closely!

They weren't on her radar a few weeks ago, but now they are.

They weren't on her mind before these friends, but now they are and she does have these friends.

That doesn't mean it's not really 'her' or that you can somehow reason it away - the fact that she's searching ChatGPT for info means she is wanting it to be part of her life and identity right now.

So lean into empathy. Get curious about what she and her friends experience at school. Not with a tone of "but your life is lovely, what could you possibly be upset about?" But a tone that says "yeah being a teenager is hard, tell me more about what makes it hard."

See how her friends are sympathetic and supportive while sharing their own experiences? Try that - with your genuine understanding for whatever she's experiencing right now, you might introduce her to some healthier coping mechanisms.

Thanks. We just don't understand how cutting herself could be a coping mechanism for a child who's scared to get her ears pierced, scared to have her vaccinations, and traditionally will avoid washing with so much as a paper cut. I'm not exaggerating - she's always been so pain averse. Other chatgpt searches I saw were things like "can you die from superficial cuts on your arms" and my instinct there was that there was anxiety over what she'd done, rather than her wanting to know whether it was an effective suicide method.

This is why it's so difficult. If we thought that it was more a genuine way of releasing emotional distress rather than copying to fit in etc, I think maybe that would be more straightforward to deal with as there's so much advice. But no advice whatsoever on how to support an autistic teen who is lying about stuff (like the overdose) and trying on a persona.

Tw: self harming

I self harmed when I was that age.

I was also very scared of pain. I wanted to cut myself because so hated myself and I didn't fit in at school and nobody wanted to be friends with me.
I remember sitting in the bathroom for hours with a knife wondering if the physical pain was worth the emotional peace I got.

This was way before the internet existed.

It isn't about what you think or feel. It's all about your daughter and somehow, something has gone wrong for her or she is dealing with challenges you don't understand however she can.

If you can afford it, get her under an adolescent psychiatrist and line up the best possible therapy/counselling. Be aware that finding the right therapist is like finding a comfortable pair of shoes - you might have to try a few.

If you have to rely on camhs, note everything they advise, recommend or promise and confirm it back in writing with time frames. They are slippery little buggers.

Take it very seriously and be kind. To your dd and yourselves.

All of it is a cry for help though that she is struggling and you need to get her help

Please do take this seriously; l agree with the recommendation of a referral or go private to a counselor/psychologist/social worker, especially one that works with teens and autism. It may offer her the support she needs to work her way through this. The teenage years can be tough, especially on people with neurodivergence.

It’s clear from your post that she is very much loved and sounds like a lovely young lady.

I don't want to comment on here but do PM me.

Thank you. She is lovely...she's so incredibly funny and bubbly and is a joy to spend time with. Our house is filled with laughter, still even now since we found out, which is why it's so difficult to process.

I think we'll need to go private. We put in the referral to CAHMS a week ago and haven't even had an acknowledgement yet, and I've always read nothing but negative things about them.

Thanks but I can't, MN have disabled PMs site wise I understand

My sd is pain averse to the way you describe however did and may still be cutting herself. Just because she is scared of pain doesn't mean she won't do it.
She also made a claim that she'd taken things to the next level and did admit later she'd made it up.
But... that made it all more pressing that she had help from someone qualified. Her lies actually never stopped and it became a huge huge issue.
Seek some therapy and support for you all

We went private and it really helped so I think if you can I would

you also I think need to accept that even though she is fine and happy at home she isn’t outside of her safe space and she is struggling

that Two things can simultaneously be true that within her home and people she feels safe with she is happy but outside she is feeling very different emotions and the stress of masking is too much

and self harm is very different to other forms of pain and is rooted in control as much as anything else

What would happen if you said you were looking at a new school for her - as this one is making her anxious or whatever. Kids usually hate moving schools so she might start to be more her usual self if she thinks this could happen.

It would be unusual as an autistic girl if she found school easy - however she may present when there.

She'd know full well that I was trying to manipulate her. It's the best school in the city academically, has just received a glowing Ofsted report, I believe that single sex education is best for her, she was desperate to go there and the last thing I'd want to do is disrupt her socially when she's clearly already struggling. I wouldn't want to move her in a million years and she would know that.

She sounds so like me as a teenager. I was fine at home but the lying came from low self- esteem- and yes the function of self- harm was attention, as you suspect. The lying became a huge problem and I still carry shame about it in my adult life. My parents were totally unaware so she's lucky you're getting her help. Totally agree with pp that a private clinical psychologist is the way to go. You sound like a lovely mum and very thoughtful

Thank you. Not to drip feed but I felt my OP was long enough...another chatgpt search I saw was "what is a pathological liar". I know that could be completely unrelated but I can't help but wonder why she asked it.

Has she said what pills she took? I would suggest a Dr's visit and explain she might have damaged her kidneys/liver and she will need blood tests to check function

I suspect she is wondering why she is feeling the need to lie (for attention etc)