DS (19) told me I'm toxic, controlling & a shit parent

[boyohboys]

DS and I have had a rocky relationship since he was about 13. I initially put it down to hormones - his & mine - and general stubbornness on both sides but assumed by now we'd be back on track. I've posted a few times about him over the years but we're definitely going backwards not forwards and if it continues I can see him leaving home and never looking back😢

In a recent argument, DS told me I'm a shit parent, I clearly favour DS2, I'm toxic and controlling, I never listen to him, whatever he does is never good enough and it's no wonder he act like he does WOW talk about punch in the gut. I know we aren't getting on but didn't know he felt like this or blamed me for everything!

I need to accept this is how he feels whether I agree or not, & it could well be that I'm blinkered and maybe it is true, but, so much just doesn't compute or I can see why he's saying this but I'd argue he is the problem! But then I read these stately homes threads and think, am I one of those parents who just can't see their faults despite being told by my own child? Or is he just an angry entitled teenager rebelling against his parents & school/society generally? He is a tricky child to parent and I do feel lost most of the time so know we've gone wrong somewhere although no issues with DS2 (16) so really not sure what to think. DS2 is much easier to parent & we don't really argue so can see why DS1 thinks we favour him even if it's not the case.

How do I process this and either work on my behaviour or our relationship or both when he's strongly resistant to anything I do or say.

Honestly if you've got to 19 and never had that thrown at you in an argument before you are doing well.

I think I started getting that around age 12.

Now I don't know you and I don't know your DS. But I do know it's a very common thing for teens to say in the emotions of a row.

Mine are now 23 and are a lot more reasonable!

I initially put it down to hormones - his & mine - and general stubbornness on both sides but assumed by now we'd be back on track.
I do think as the adult your hormones and your stubbornness shouldn’t be so impactful that you’re open about it contributing to a poorer relationship with your child. And I don’t think it makes sense to assume your relationship will get better naturally, that takes work.
no one here can tell you the answer, but it’s good you’re asking yourself, probably most (all?) toxic parents would never consider it could be them.
It is likely you’re contributing something to the poor relationship (even if it’s accidentally or unintentionally, or you’re not now but things you’ve done in the past are still lingering) so maybe have a think about triggers and try have a good conversation with him about it.
but also he’s a teenager so maybe he’s just saying it, no one here can tell you that though!

Well, OP, don't know, I have no kids.
However, I'm 45 and wish I managed to tell couple of homey truths to my father before he suddenly died.
Mother was no better, but she is 1000 miles away.
This stuff stays with people all their lives, the worst thing is the pretence to get your hands on what's rightfully yours.
Projecting here. I'm sure you are a better parent to your 19 yo than the parents I was forced to live with.

Gosh mines 13 and has already used the "you favour other sibling" argument. (I don't, I treat them the same just ds13 pushes the boundaries more compared to his brother.)

Well done to getting to 19 without that. Thats impressive.

The best way to go about this is sit him down and ask how he'd like to be treated see if there's anyway to make improvements for both of you.
If he wants to be treated like an adult per-say, then he needs to do something like more chores around the house.

I've got the opposite experience to @GingerPirate . I yelled this sort of stuff at my parents and was then pretty ashamed of it when I grew up a bit. I know it hurt them and in hindsight could see what an idiot I was at that age and how limited my understanding of the world/human behaviour/my parents' experiences was.

I wouldn't take it to heart. Hopefully he'll grow up a bit and gain some much needed perspective.

I get this approx every few months. Gruesome. Sometimes I have tried to address the precise issues in a calm conversation; invariably I end up apologising on the back foot, which I'm not sure is helpful.
Fwiw ds is also a hard-to-parent child/young person but flourishes with distance, independence and praise.

It’s normal for kids to say horrible things.
I would just say “Okay you’re entitled to your opinion, I’d like you to be aware that you’ve really hurt my feelings and I hope in future you can see I’ve always wanted the best for you and love you very much”
Dont get into lengthy arguments or to and grow.

All parents have ding dongs with their kids don’t sweat it x

I've not read your previous threads. You say you'd "assumed by now we'd be back on track". Have you actually been trying to build a better relationship with him and to deal with the issues between the two of you, or are you just assuming that time smooths everything out?

He's 'resistant to what you do or say' because going by your quote from him, he feels not listened to and not appreciated, and if he's saying 'like it's never good enough for you', criticised. So the situation is one where he's tense and on-edge, rather than open to what you're doing or saying.

To some extent I'd say this is normal behaviour, but your DS is older now and I'd expect him to be coming out the other side. He's an adult, not a child anymore. In your shoes I'd step right back. Set your boundaries about things that directly affect you (dirty plates etc!). Beyond that it's probably time he lived on his own terms. I'd sit down together, acknowledge his feelings and come up with a plan. Make some concessions if you have to for the sake of the relationship, but not ones that involve being his housemaid or his free ATM.

Your doing well to have got to 19. My 5 year old told me she doesn't love me and when she's old enough she's going to move to Australia without me.

Have to disagree, it’s not normal or acceptable for teenagers to say horrible things. They may yell a bit or get resentful (quite often over things which are nothing to do with parenting really, you’re just a handy target😁!) and then apologise when calmer. It seems to me by accepting these behaviours you make them think it’s okay and it’s hard to stop.

Sympathy OP, I have just been called a 'gaslighting liar' amongst other things after asking my son if he was putting sauce on his taco.

What about some family therapy, it seems like a professional with an outside perspective could help here. I think it will be difficult for you and your DS to fix it because you are too immersed in the situation.

I initially put it down to hormones - his & mine - and general stubbornness on both sides but assumed by now we'd be back on track.
I do think as the adult it was your job to make sure your hormones and your stubbornness didn't harm your relationship or your child at 13. Assuming it will just get better with no effort on your part really isnt ok. It is good that you are now questioning the role you've played in this, it's most likely there's fault on both sides, but you need to keep in mind he was only 13 when this rockiness started and is probably acting from a place of hurt and at that age it really was your responsibility to work on and protect that relationship and make sure your issues didn't effect him, not the other way around. He may well be emotionally stuck at that age in the context of your relationship together.

His feelings are how he feels, they might not be accurate, but they are valid. If he's willing to talk about it outside heat of the moment anger I'd start by listening to him and acknowledging his emotions and how he's felt in reaction to the issues between you. You are where you are now, you can't change that and maybe he's an unreasonable 19 year old or maybe he's justified, or most likely it's somewhere in between those two, but you can still listen and work on it whatever the.cause. Listening, really hearing him isn't about the validity of his complaints, or who is right or wrong, it's about him feeling heard and trying to move forward to a better relationship.

What about he starts to leave home now he is a adult if he does not like you.
I wouldn't be tolerating that shite at 19.
Perhaps his personality is not as easy or nice as his sibling.
Buck up or ship out Mate.

Yes, but he needs to leave home and grow up a bit more. Nineteen is technically an adult, but emotionally not necessarily so.

Are you assuming he's wrong because you don't know if he is. They're horrible things to say of they didnt happen, but they're not horrible things to say if it's simply the truth. My pre-teen has yelled some 'horrible' things at her dad on two occasionsi that I know of. He did every one of those horrible things. I'm not saying OPs like my abusive ex, but you really don't know if these are behaviours OP shouldn't tolerate or simply the truth

The thing is, I could have said the same to my parent but they never would have seen it.

I think don't immediately dismiss this but sit down and ask for some real examples of times he has felt this way. My mum definitely favours my brother though she wouldn't see it even now. I could reel off fifty examples quite easily to back it up. Can he?

Once you have done that you are in a better place to assess whether there is any truth to it. As someone else said, a neutral third party could help.

It can be easy as a parent to be a bit controlling and put it down to protecting them, or to get on better with the one who is more like you or easier in general. You know why you do those things, but if you never expand on anything then they can't understand your motivation and can only assess from their position.

Very easy to put things down to young adults being horrible, but if you want to rebuild a relationship I would start by listening with an open mind, not going right to throwing him out as some say. That to me is toxic.

It's impossible for anyone on the outside to be able to tell who's right. But do you think there's any truth in what he's saying?

It doesn't sound like you put the work in from 13 onwards - I don't know why you assumed the relationship would improve without some effort on your side? You've always been the adult in this, with the power to change things.

What are the examples he has given you behind his unhappiness so far?

Where is his DF in all of this? Whats you marriage like - are you a consistent team?

This is me and my mother at 37 and 67. She continues to favour my brother and blames me for our relationship being so awful.
The golden child can do no wrong but I can do no right - even now if she is mad at my brother, I’m the one who cops the tantrums and drama - she is a 67yr old toddler who is awful if she’s tired/hungry/annoyed at anyone -I’ve been the one who stayed around the home/helping out for my terminally ill father and now to try to keep my mother active as otherwise she will just sit and do very little all day. We have had an utterly shit relationship since I was little and I am blamed regularly for being hard to love, a problem, and 101 reasons given for my short comings. I would beg for her to come to events important to me but she never supported me at hobbies or events but was a cub leader for my brother - you get the idea.
My mother blamed her hormones during menopause and now blames mine for any rows we have. I have tried countless times to find ways for us to do things to improve the relationship but she won’t work with me - if I suggest afternoon tea, she will pull a face and say no, she doesn’t like tea but if my brother suggests it, it’s the kindest idea ever. I’ve tried to sit down and discuss how I feel with her but she won’t have it - I remain the issue and there’s nothing to discuss.
Edit - I can and have gone to her with specific examples and want to talk about the imbalance in how we’re treated but she won’t entertain it - so if your son has them please listen to him. It becomes a self feeding cycle of resentment otherwise

It impacted my relationships for a long time as I struggle with feeling inadequate, being a problem, worthless, hard to love etc, but over a year ago I met the kindest man who has shown me that I’m not the issue.

Recently my brother accused my fiancé of being out to scam the family as he felt it wasn’t getting his fair share of a potential (!!) inheritance after a hypothetical conversation designed to try to make my mothers life easier, and said some utterly vile things to my mother and I (fiancé wasn’t allowed to join the family meeting) so we have cut ties with him and I am about to walk out of my mothers life and leave her to my brother as she has doubled down and decided my brother wasn’t that bad - she is in denial and has told other family members that once again I’m the cause because I’m so difficult. I actually can’t wait to cut all ties and the countdown is making me giddy but also very sad. I’ve tried all I can

Sorry long and slightly irrelevant - but I’ve posted to show how it can continue to get worse if you don’t try to fix it ^ but my advice would be really put the leg work in with your son to find any common ground and work on spending time with him even if it’s not what you enjoy.
Try to find ways to to complement him, celebrate accomplishments even tiny, show interest in him and what’s important to him and have the awful sit down conversations to hear him out, find out why he feels the way he feels and try hard to not brush him off. If at any point my mother would acknowledge her behaviour rather than telling me I’m hard to love, we’d have a totally different relationship

I'm always curious on these types of threads to understand why parents find it very very difficult to admit they may have failed their DC in some way.. There are no perfect parents. I can already imagine what my own DS (13) may say down the line.. and while of course it's hurtful (especially when you believe you've done your best for your child and the child doesn't see all the effort that goes into parenting) .. their perspective is valid, there WILL be elements that have been true and you WILL have hurt them... and sometimes it's coming from a place of wanting to lash out because they don't feel good about themselves or accepted for who they are (especially if they are more 'difficult')

Have you ever sat and listened (without being defensive) and apologised. The fact that you think he is to blame (as you stated in your post) says a lot about how difficult you find it to take any criticism of your parenting, which does kind of tally with the criticisms he threw at you. I'm not saying everything he says is true.. but there will be truth in it. In some ways, he's giving you an insight into his mindset, and an opportunity to respond (in terms of listening and acknowledging his feelings). He isn't just walking away or going no contact without any explanation.

Personally, I think the underlying characters of children differ massively and so the more kids you have, the more likely it is, you have to use different parenting skills for each child. When you have just 2 they can then feel unfairly treated. You have to mend the relationship, listen, apologise and ask him how to be better and what he wants. Explain that you love him unconditionally but parent and child can clash due to different character. It sounds like he is seeking independence and does not want you to control him. You can explain for example that it is normal to be a bit nervous with a first born and worried about letting go too soon etc.
My mother is quite anxious and controlling. I am the complete opposite, completely free spirited and independent and go getter. Obviously she had the best relationship with one of my siblings who is more like her initially. But when you work on it and you accept differences, then you get there. Once the child is grown up which your son now is, you have to treat him like a friend and adult. You have to put your own worries to one side.