DS (19) told me I'm toxic, controlling & a shit parent

[boyohboys]

DS and I have had a rocky relationship since he was about 13. I initially put it down to hormones - his & mine - and general stubbornness on both sides but assumed by now we'd be back on track. I've posted a few times about him over the years but we're definitely going backwards not forwards and if it continues I can see him leaving home and never looking back😢

In a recent argument, DS told me I'm a shit parent, I clearly favour DS2, I'm toxic and controlling, I never listen to him, whatever he does is never good enough and it's no wonder he act like he does WOW talk about punch in the gut. I know we aren't getting on but didn't know he felt like this or blamed me for everything!

I need to accept this is how he feels whether I agree or not, & it could well be that I'm blinkered and maybe it is true, but, so much just doesn't compute or I can see why he's saying this but I'd argue he is the problem! But then I read these stately homes threads and think, am I one of those parents who just can't see their faults despite being told by my own child? Or is he just an angry entitled teenager rebelling against his parents & school/society generally? He is a tricky child to parent and I do feel lost most of the time so know we've gone wrong somewhere although no issues with DS2 (16) so really not sure what to think. DS2 is much easier to parent & we don't really argue so can see why DS1 thinks we favour him even if it's not the case.

How do I process this and either work on my behaviour or our relationship or both when he's strongly resistant to anything I do or say.

Surely there was more backstory than what you’ve portrayed to warrant that response.

Yes he gave examples of my controlling behaviour and the events or conversations themselves certainly happened, but, they started as what I imagined were typical parental advice & guidance so obviously I see them differently. DS is fiercely independent (which I'm sure will stand him in good stead in the future) but he does not like being told what to do. At All. He lost a job because of it & we had many issues at school over his defiance and I've recently had to apologise to my mother in law for the way her grandson spoke to her when she tried giving him some worldly advice 😮. So whilst I'm not saying I might not be controlling, he is particularly averse to any sort of guidance or instruction.

Examples mainly centred around school/work/UCAS and his inability to plan ahead and meet deadlines & I guess my frustration at this and not wanting to see him fail. UCAS: he had to do the PS and deadline was looming, I asked if he wanted some help he said no. Deadline a week off, still not written, I asked again how he was getting on reminded him of the deadline & whether he'd made a start, started suggesting some content ideas. He got cross, still said he can do it himself and to get off his case. I then get an email from school asking about it so try again and it explodes into a major row. Night before deadline he hands me a draft and asks for help. I stay up until ridiculous o'clock to get it finished and submitted on time. DH says I should just let him do it his own way or learn from the failure. But I don't want him to fail so keep plugging away. Another was GCSE revision - he did nothing and was on course to fail, I tried and tried to get him to revise until he finally relented and I spent about a month standing over him at the table in the run up to exams helping him cram. Controlling, yes but am I glad he passed, of course and & therefore in my mind justifies it. Other examples were minor things that I'm increasingly stepping away from as the repercussions of his inaction don't impact me: being on time places, picking up his dirty washing & putting away clothes, not lying in bed all day, doing chores. A typical washing or chores exchange: I'll remind him he needs to clean the bathroom this week or put his washing in the basket. Next day comes and no action so I remind again. Leave it a few hours, still nothing so start to get cross and ask that he gets up and does it now, this is when he explodes that I'm impatient and he said he'd do it so why can't I just leave him alone to do it in his own time and stop forcing me to do everything my way.

Favouring his brother is tricky as I do see why he might say that as we don't tend to argue and purely due to his age/life stage, he spends more time with us but I absolutely don't recognise the examples of choosing one over the other or favouring his younger brother. I spent many many hours pitch-side watching rugby matches, driving him to training etc and would now if he still played, he comes on family holidays and I try and take him out for lunch occasionally. He says I will pick his brother up but not him but doesn't seem to acknowledge his brother has just turned 16 and that I did that for him at that age but now expect him to get the bus or take his driving test (we provided lessons & a car insured up to 18 but he decided he didn't to want drive when he realised he'd have to pay for the running costs!).

Suggestions of therapy are good ones and something I will look into as I'm genuinely struggling to see the issue being on me which in itself could be the issue! We both think the other is in the wrong & can't see a way out of a cycle of negativity so outside input would be really helpful.

I have a DS like this and have in the past engaged like you. I think he is ADHD/ASD and traditional stuff doesnt work. He's naturally contrary to anything I suggest or say. So I back right off. His life. His consequences. But he has done well on his own - he is very driven when not distracted /preoccupied with me hoovering about.

However with chores - there is an agreed written schedule for everyone - a deadline for completion and then a clear consistent consequnce that requires zero nagging.

Consequence was literally no dinner served until all chores done that day.
Never seen a bathroom cleaned so quickly.

We both think the other is in the wrong & can't see a way out of a cycle of negativity so outside input would be really helpful.

Reflect that you are maybe just not naturally compatible. Reflect that he may ahve ND tendancies as may do you - look into lifestyle adapations that are easy to implement and do so surrepticiously.

My only aim with my DS now is zero escalation and minimal conflict - easily done if you keep out of each others way and let him live his life as he wants.

How is your marriage - are you a consistent parenting team?

I think some people are minimizing here. He’s 19 not 13. And it doesn’t sound like this is an issue if he blows up then they go back to a good relationship till the next blow up. This sounds like his permanent feelings.

OP you need to really listen to him, ask him how he ex stuff things to be different. You might even want to pay some sort of family facilitator. I remember my seven year old say to me once ‘you are not listening, you are answering’ and that wisdom of babes has stayed with me.

He’s your son and you want to sort this, I’d throw everything at it to sort it now.

@5starzz the idea of a chore schedule that doesn't result in nagging is a great idea - we have a weekly chores schedule but I inevitably get annoyed when jobs aren't done after a few days and then an argument escalates as DS wants to do it in his own time, I assume he won't do it unless nagged (and have left it & no he doesn't do it) & so on... No dinner is an obvious one although DS would probably just make his own on principle but that could be just whilst we're in the cycle of nag/argue/nag. ADHD was suggested by school DS a few years ago and they said they'd monitor but follow-up said no concerns. I don't know much about it but possible (& ditto for me but again, don't really know much about it). Something I should have pursued and parenting failure if he does and I missed it.

Marriage is good - DH & DS also clash but DH has backed off quite considerably and says it's up to DS to act or fail. They still chat, play golf and don't argue, but DH has become quite negative about DS and assumes he will fail at things because he doesn't put the effort in and whilst he doesn't say it directly to DS, I'm sure it rubs off and DS is aware is Dad isn't his cheerleader anymore.

@Silkinside I think answering but not listening is how he feels. I honestly do want to salvage and rebuild a relationship. But I also want him to do something with his life and it's hard to see the one you love wasting his chances and watching life pass him by. A family facilitator sounds good - someone to mediate an open discussion so I hear him and he hears me and we both find a way forward together. And I'm sure that means me backing off and letting him find his own way mistakes and all.

https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-symptoms-test-adults/

Really do some research on ADHD - undiagnosed, unsupported and untreated - just leads to unnecessary repeated 'failures' in all aspects of life (they are not failures - they are a disability that needs accomodating - but most of the world cant see this0 -- this then leads to cyles of low self esteem, deteriorating / jarring relationships in all areas of life - family, friends, colleagues, intimate - then depression, disconnection and loneliness. Subs abuse or other unhealthy coping mechanisms then spin lives off into a further downward spiral of addiction and entrenched MH issues. All avoidable.

Read up on ADHD rejection sensitivity

You describe to a ‘T’ my ADHD daughter and ADHD niece

Stunned at how many folks get this on the regular and think it’s normal. No wonder so many folks on the stately home thread.

its not normal and ive never had it.

jeez.

I think the only person who can really tell you a balanced answer to this....is your younger son who has witnessed it all.

I used to think that because I had one child who was easy to parent, than I was in no anyway in the wrong for the arguments with the other child...because hey one of the kids turned out great so I must be a good parent.

Until I realised the more layed-back child was watching me argue with their sibling and this second child decided they didn't want that angst so took the easy road with me.

I think it also takes two to tango - there is no going to be one person in the right and the other in the wrong.

You also implied it yourself - it doesn't matter if your son's perception of you is a little wonky - its his perception, its his feelings - so I would recommend working on that rather than trying to persuade him he is wrong.

Parenting is hard isn't it? It's like we always have to step back and rethink our approach with things, swallow our own feelings and take one on the chin if it helps one of our kids.

Wow interesting stuff - I've answered on his behalf as he's still in bed so some guessing but 20/24 would suggest it's pretty likely he does in fact have ADHD and rejection sensitivity sounds VERY familiar - he does not handle failure or rejection well at all and will often find failure when there really isn't any it's just life obstacles or what we see as a minor blip he rages out against.

Will be having a heart to heart when he's up and hopefully he'll be open to the idea of at least investigating further and maybe start with a GP appointment. I wonder whether he might be aware this is a possibility already and therefore relieved, or, he could see this as another criticism/failure so will have to tread carefully.

@Sparklywhiteteeth I don't get what you're saying in your post - get what "on the regular"? "it's not normal"- what's not normal?

very interesting what you say about #2 child not necessarily being easier but adapting to make their life easier. I hadn't considered it that way but food for thought and maybe it turns out I just a shit parent.

Also ADHD is genetic - so who has it come from you or your DH? Women present differently than men. I have had to look at my own reactivity and ampflied / skewed perception and how this can escalate disproportionally with someone very similar. Compassion and understanding of self and other helps.

This is striking a chord with me, DS similar but I had to make him go live with his dad after he punched my front door in. He wrote a horrible long message about what a terrible mother I was, it was horrible to read.

There's no happy ending for me, really. Removed at 19, nearly 21, now, and no contact. He did delete the horrible Whstsapp message at some point, and I take comfort that he hasn't blocked me, but he doesn't read my messages. I keep trying.

He felt I favoured his little sister but she's significantly younger with different needs. I tried to make him understand I did all those things with him at that age.

I did everything I could for him, but it put me in the position of being the bad guy, nag, controlling, whatever you want to dress it up as, when you want your child to be happy, fulfilled, a good person and independent. Believe me, my standards were low. I just wanted him to attend school and college and get a job. Normal stuff.

His sister was recently diagnosed with ADHD. The family therapist had got him onto the waiting list for a test a few years ago, but when his name came to the top of the list, his father persuaded him not to take the test. So he remains undiagnosed, despite me offering to pay privately and for any therapy he needs. My messages go unread.

I hope you have more success with your DS.

Name change, that’s hard. I’m so sorry. Never give up hope though

does his sister hear from him?

This thread has really struck a chord with me. My DD is 16 and is awaiting an ADHD diagnosis. I feel like I try so hard but somehow come up short every time. We used to be so close (I think, but I'm now questioning everything). Now she seems to actively despise me, feels I don't have her back. She thinks her sister is the favourite and that we accommodate her needs far more. This is totally at odds with my perception and I feel at a loss constantly. I wake up most mornings trying to prepare myself to be strong and try again but honestly the verbal abuse, then silent treatment, is breaking me. I want to really listen to her and help but how do you do this when what they are saying is unfair and untrue? I've definitely made mistakes. Unquestionably. But I'm not a shit parent or a shit person. Am I?

OP I so hope you can make a breakthrough. Please let me know if you do! I'm not giving up with DD, I'm going to keep on trying if it kills me.

My dd was like this. ADHD medication has really change her/ our relationship. I felt suicidal at times. The silent treatment especially - it is abuse, basically

she is mostly lovely nowadays

@PuckyMup 🙏💐

In your shoes I would first have a think what could it be that makes him say that, think about situation where he might have felt that way. Then I would try to talk to him and ask him why does he feel that and give you examples. Ask him how he would have liked you handle those situations.

Giving advice is a minefield. Some people are more open to it and dont like unwanted advice.
Different wording, different tone, being less direct, less advice overall, listening to what he says . Just a few thoughts.