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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Teenage brothers hate each other

43 replies

Neodymium · 09/08/2024 23:31

I have 2 teen boys (13 and 15).

15 year old has asd, adhd and is socially developmentally delayed.

13 year old is not, and is very kind clever and popular. He is very mature for his age, kind of kid who gets picked as a student leader for things.

15 year old is mean to his brother all the time, calls him fat, will purposefully annoy him like go into his room ect. They constantly argue, every day going to school and home they are fighting.

ds15 does get into trouble when he calls him names, but he still does it. Ds15 is very immature and I think he is threatened by ds13 as he is well liked at school and ds15 is not. Kids his age are all into parties drinking and girlfriends and ds15 still likes playing outside. Last weekend for example he built a tree fort to play in. So he doesn’t have any friends at school.

it just makes me so upset all the time that they won’t be nice to each other. They had a big argument last night, ds15 had this noisy toy that he was annoying ds13 with making it noise in his ear. DS13 kept asking him to stop
and when he didn’t he threw something at him and hit him in the face, then they had a huge argument and ds15 went to ds13 room and took something of his and hid it. Then ds13 said he was pathetic ect ect.

they both go to therapy, actually to the same one but different times. DS13 spends the whole time complaining about his brother. Ds15 doesn’t engage that well yet but it’s a work in progress (new therapist).

I just don’t know what to do. We can’t do anything as a family as it just ends up being in arguments.

ds15 just got a part time job he was really excited and went to tell his brother. Ds13 told him to go away and he doesn’t care. I spoke to ds13 after and said that was unkind and he did go and apologise and told ds15 congratulations. He said he is just sick of ds15 bursting into his room, this time was to tell him but 99% of the time it’s so pester him or be mean.

OP posts:
SeulementUneFois · 09/08/2024 23:35

Get the younger one a lock for his room.
And stop letting his brother ride roughshod over him.

PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 09/08/2024 23:40

How developmentally delayed is developmentally delayed?

if he’s playing outside / making forts etc I’m guessing quite a lot.

The little one had outgrown the big one. The age gap is too big. And, as the big one is constantly mean to him, why would he want to be around him?

I would stop trying to force them together. Buy the little one a lock for his room. Appropriate consequences for the big one.

Original poster
Neodymium · 09/08/2024 23:42

SeulementUneFois · 09/08/2024 23:35

Get the younger one a lock for his room.
And stop letting his brother ride roughshod over him.

he gets into trouble, when he is mean he loses his phone for 24 hours. Doesn’t seem to make a difference though.

he is on medication for adhd but struggles with impulse control. He sees a psychologist and an OT weekly so it’s not like we are doing nothing.

OP posts:
user1471538275 · 09/08/2024 23:44

You need to be dealing with this.

The older one is jealous of the younger and is treating him badly.

They are not going to 'play nicely together'

You need to stop the older one behaving in such an irritating way and agree with a lock on the younger one's door to stop him coming in (although from personal experience he will probably stand outside and kick the door/shout)

Edingril · 09/08/2024 23:44

Neodymium · 09/08/2024 23:42

he gets into trouble, when he is mean he loses his phone for 24 hours. Doesn’t seem to make a difference though.

he is on medication for adhd but struggles with impulse control. He sees a psychologist and an OT weekly so it’s not like we are doing nothing.

Show quote history

But that is not the 13yo fault, as another suggested put a lock on the door

Normally I would not suggest this but in this case it may be needed

user1471538275 · 09/08/2024 23:45

Otherwise as soon as possible your 13 year old will start staying out of your house to keep away from his brother.

Original poster
Neodymium · 09/08/2024 23:45

PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 09/08/2024 23:40

How developmentally delayed is developmentally delayed?

if he’s playing outside / making forts etc I’m guessing quite a lot.

The little one had outgrown the big one. The age gap is too big. And, as the big one is constantly mean to him, why would he want to be around him?

I would stop trying to force them together. Buy the little one a lock for his room. Appropriate consequences for the big one.

I don’t ever make them do anything together. But obviously travelling to school we all go to the same place. They both get on well with their cousin (who is neurodivergent too) and I never make them all go out together. For example if younger one makes plans with cousin to go fishing I don’t let older one go. Older one went with cousin to movies last week and I didn’t let younger one go.

but it would be nice if we could go and do things as a family without arguments.

OP posts:
user1471538275 · 09/08/2024 23:50

"but it would be nice if we could go and do things as a family without arguments."

I think you're a long way off this. I'm not sure it's a realistic thing for most families with teens anyway.

You need to focus on day to day interactions between your children and how to manage them.

OT/Meds/Therapist are irrelevant - it is up to you as a parent to help them in their regular intereactions.

Siblings without rivalry is a good read.

Original poster
Neodymium · 09/08/2024 23:50

user1471538275 · 09/08/2024 23:45

Otherwise as soon as possible your 13 year old will start staying out of your house to keep away from his brother.

Yes that is my worry. Maybe we can investigate getting a lock for his door. I already feel like ds13 avoids inviting friends over as his brother is so weird.

ds15 has an aversion to clothes and is often just in boxer shorts at home. He plays in the yard like that too, and his games involve him making weird noises sometimes too. Sometimes at the shops he will kind of be dancing/jumping about or something and make weird sounds. DS13 finds him embarrassing and doesn’t want to go anywhere with him.

OP posts:
OhcantthInkofaname · 09/08/2024 23:53

I wouldn't want to be around him either.

user1471538275 · 09/08/2024 23:53

What part time job does your 15 year old have that he is going to cope with given his issues?

HeddaGarbled · 09/08/2024 23:54

but it would be nice if we could go and do things as a family without arguments

I think you have to accept this isn’t going to happen right now. Maybe when they’re adults.

ds15 had this noisy toy that he was annoying ds13 with making it noise in his ear. DS13 kept asking him to stop

That needed your intervention way before it escalated. It was not OK for the elder to continue to do it once asked to stop.

Original poster
Neodymium · 09/08/2024 23:57

user1471538275 · 09/08/2024 23:50

"but it would be nice if we could go and do things as a family without arguments."

I think you're a long way off this. I'm not sure it's a realistic thing for most families with teens anyway.

You need to focus on day to day interactions between your children and how to manage them.

OT/Meds/Therapist are irrelevant - it is up to you as a parent to help them in their regular intereactions.

Siblings without rivalry is a good read.

my sisters and I used to argue. But I don’t remember hating each other like mine do.

most of the time they just stay away from each other. Actually usually ds15 retaliates when ds13 is abit condescending towards him, which I know he can be. DS13 will tell him off for doing something like making a mess in the kitchen or something. So it’s not like ds13 is completely innocent. He often starts the arguments.

dh reckons it’s cause they are both going through puberty and testosterone and stuff and that’s why they constantly fight.

OP posts:
user1471538275 · 09/08/2024 23:57

Sibling relationships are practice for other relationships in life.

Does your 15 year old behave like this around others - or just his brother?

Like the above poster I think you need to be intervening more.

Original poster
Neodymium · 10/08/2024 00:03

user1471538275 · 09/08/2024 23:57

Sibling relationships are practice for other relationships in life.

Does your 15 year old behave like this around others - or just his brother?

Like the above poster I think you need to be intervening more.

No just his brother really. He’s abit mean to his sister too but not as bad.

i do intervene. But as I said often ds15 is retaliating as ds13 is abit condescending. Which he definitely can be. Or ds15 is just doing something stupid but not directly affecting ds13 like dancing round singing at the shops and ds13 will say something not mean exactly but like he’s superior to him.

OP posts:
Original poster
Neodymium · 10/08/2024 00:10

HeddaGarbled · 09/08/2024 23:54

but it would be nice if we could go and do things as a family without arguments

I think you have to accept this isn’t going to happen right now. Maybe when they’re adults.

ds15 had this noisy toy that he was annoying ds13 with making it noise in his ear. DS13 kept asking him to stop

That needed your intervention way before it escalated. It was not OK for the elder to continue to do it once asked to stop.

I was in another room, it happened before I could even get there. He was following him annoying him with the noisy toy for about 10 seconds ds13 told him to stop and then when he made the noise again he turned round and threw something he had in his hand. The entire interaction from him starting with the toy to throwing would have been under 20 seconds.

like;

ds15 walking behind him ‘noise noise’ ds13 ‘stop doing that’ ds15 ‘noise’ ds13 turned and threw the thing at him.

wasn’t like it was going on for long enough that I had time to intervene.

OP posts:
Sugarnspicenallthingsnaice · 10/08/2024 00:15

Ugh, sounds like my household a few years ago, I feel for you.

Bad news: there was nothing I could say or do that made it better. I was really hot on pulling both of them up on their behaviour, which often resulted in them both turning on me, but it never achieved anything in the long term. And was absolutely relentlessly exhausting, I yearned for some peace in the house.

Good news: they grew out of it. As they matured and learned to modify their own behaviour (both the 'annoying one' and the 'overreacting one') they have grown very close. That's with the youngest being 18.

I'd like to think that all those hard yards I put in (single mum) had a positive benefit but I'm not sure they did. I think they would have grown up and out of it regardless and I probably inserted myself into their conflicts and caused myself a great deal of stress for not much reward.

BoundaryGirl3939 · 10/08/2024 00:27

Ds 15 is taking the piss and bullying his younger brother. I dont care what label it is (asd, autism), ds15 knows and understands what he is doing.

I genuinely feel bad for younger, innocent brother.

Original poster
Neodymium · 10/08/2024 00:34

BoundaryGirl3939 · 10/08/2024 00:27

Ds 15 is taking the piss and bullying his younger brother. I dont care what label it is (asd, autism), ds15 knows and understands what he is doing.

I genuinely feel bad for younger, innocent brother.

but are all brothers like that?

im from a family of all girls. My sisters were definitely mean to me and acted like they hated me. But I was so much younger so I always wanted to hang round with them anyway.

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 10/08/2024 00:46

Your poor younger son. His life sounds like hell in that home. His brother is a violent bully. Don't "investigate" getting him a lock, just do it. He needs you to do something other than just taking a bloody phone away as punishment.

Scautish · 10/08/2024 00:51

In your opening post you sound ashamed of DS15 and super proud of DS13

i wonder if this is being picked up by DS15 and he is acting out of jealousy - and if he’s developmentally delayed he may not have other methods to show his disappointment

Also, what adjustments have you made in your house to make it more ASD/ADHD friendly? - this will also be critical.

Simply punishing DS15 using allistic methods are unlikely to work. Instead you need to identify underlying causes of his behaviour. Further it is really important you understand how some ND behaviours (not taunting/bullying) seem normal to us but - inexplicably at times - allistic people seem to get upset by them. The opposite applies to - allistic behaviours can be very upsetting to us, but are accepted as normal by them.

before anyone jumps on me, I am categorically not saying that the behaviours DS15 is displaying just need to be accepted. They are causing all parties distress and need to stop. But it is not as simple as punishing and telling him he is wrong. I think there is a lot more at play here.

Bobbotgegrinch · 10/08/2024 00:55

Neodymium · 10/08/2024 00:34

but are all brothers like that?

im from a family of all girls. My sisters were definitely mean to me and acted like they hated me. But I was so much younger so I always wanted to hang round with them anyway.

Show quote history

No, we're not.

Me and my brother had periods where we wound each other up, or didn't get on. But, we didn't try to deliberately antagonise each other.

Your eldest is bullying the 13 year old. Your 13nyear old needs space that he can escape to.

Original poster
Neodymium · 10/08/2024 01:33

Aquamarine1029 · 10/08/2024 00:46

Your poor younger son. His life sounds like hell in that home. His brother is a violent bully. Don't "investigate" getting him a lock, just do it. He needs you to do something other than just taking a bloody phone away as punishment.

I’m not sure where you got violent from, they argue, ds15 annoys him. But the only incident I mentioned was ds13 throwing something at ds15. Being annoying making noisy toys near him isn’t violent.

OP posts:
JellyWellyBoots · 10/08/2024 01:49

You definitely seem more on DS15's side here. You seem to be placing blame on DS13 for some of DS15's behaviour, this is not ok. He's probably condescending towards him because he's sick of his shit.

Kiztittumne · 10/08/2024 02:31

My teenage boys hated each other, it’s normal. Lower your expectations and do whatever you can to keep them apart. I suggest they both have locks, to make it fair.

My two are now best mates, as adults. I could never have seen that coming.