Teenage brothers hate each other

[Neodymium]

I have 2 teen boys (13 and 15).

15 year old has asd, adhd and is socially developmentally delayed.

13 year old is not, and is very kind clever and popular. He is very mature for his age, kind of kid who gets picked as a student leader for things.

15 year old is mean to his brother all the time, calls him fat, will purposefully annoy him like go into his room ect. They constantly argue, every day going to school and home they are fighting.

ds15 does get into trouble when he calls him names, but he still does it. Ds15 is very immature and I think he is threatened by ds13 as he is well liked at school and ds15 is not. Kids his age are all into parties drinking and girlfriends and ds15 still likes playing outside. Last weekend for example he built a tree fort to play in. So he doesn’t have any friends at school.

it just makes me so upset all the time that they won’t be nice to each other. They had a big argument last night, ds15 had this noisy toy that he was annoying ds13 with making it noise in his ear. DS13 kept asking him to stop
and when he didn’t he threw something at him and hit him in the face, then they had a huge argument and ds15 went to ds13 room and took something of his and hid it. Then ds13 said he was pathetic ect ect.

they both go to therapy, actually to the same one but different times. DS13 spends the whole time complaining about his brother. Ds15 doesn’t engage that well yet but it’s a work in progress (new therapist).

I just don’t know what to do. We can’t do anything as a family as it just ends up being in arguments.

ds15 just got a part time job he was really excited and went to tell his brother. Ds13 told him to go away and he doesn’t care. I spoke to ds13 after and said that was unkind and he did go and apologise and told ds15 congratulations. He said he is just sick of ds15 bursting into his room, this time was to tell him but 99% of the time it’s so pester him or be mean.

Get a lock on the door. I was the younger sibling in this story and for fuck knows why, my parents refused to get a lock on my door until I was 16, when my aunt intervened on my behalf. Changed my life. As a PP mentioned might happen, my brother did stand outside my door banging and screaming for a few weeks, but gave up when I never unlocked the door.

It's really shit being a nd teenager if you don't fit in and feel like nobody likes you. To then see his little brother surpassing him and doing all the stuff he can't cope with/wouldn't be included in it's just crap. He didn't ask to be disabled but he has to deal with it, throw in developmental delays, hormones, different brain wiring. It's easy to see why your eldest is struggling and his brother (who seemingly will be managing life much easier.) is baring the brunt.

You can't really change the situation. Obviously discipline them both if either cross any lines. And maybe give youngest some tips for managing him and reassurances not to take it personally. But you need to manage the environment. So definitely a lock for youngest door. Eldest is not allowed in his room, period. That way youngest has a safe place to escape.

Can youngest make his own way to school so he's not doing the commute? Give youngest lots of opportunities to get out at a weekend and have some down time.

Agree with @anywhichone DS15 is probably insanely jealous of DS13 who appears to be everything he is not, and would probably like to be, but literally can't.

At the moment, the situation is obviously untenable. I'd give DS13 as many opportunities as possible to be independent, so lock on his room, can he make his own way to school? Opportunities to go out etc. Try to make sure that he really reaches his full potential.

DS15 sounds like he needs closer supervision, but also treating with kindness. Yes he's 'weird' but actually it's not that, he has a disability, and that needs to be allowed for, I bet he already feels as weird as heck so it being pointed out isn't really helpful. He needs re-directing, and keeping busy otherwise he will play up.

I understand that this really is a lot for you though, and the fact that you're trying to sort it comes through. Is there any additional support for DS15? Any groups or clubs he could go to?

Get a lock on both bedroom doors.

Start reinforcing the idea that they both have private space and don't have to let the other into their bedrooms.

Intervene in disputes quickly and separate them.

So for example if your elder one is deliberately making noise near your younger one to annoy him, you say that's not ok we don't do stuff to deliberately annoy people. If you cannot get in you will need to be in separate rooms.

This is what I did.

It won't fix it but it will stop a lot of the mean and unpleasant behaviour.

I don't think that level of fighting is the norm with most siblings. I know I didn't fight with my siblings growing up and my two have never had altercations like that either. Sure they have been annoyed with each other occasionally but it was never even near the level of aggression that your boys have.

I think you have to manage your oldest DS better. He shouldn't walk around the house and garden half naked if that means that your other kids don't want to have friends over because of it. You also have a DD and I'm sure she would like to be able to play with friends too. I understand that having one disabled child impacts all the other kids too but he is 15 now and it shouldn't be the norm not to get dressed. That is something that he could have possibly gotten away with when he was much younger, but not as a nearly adult young man.

With regards to the fighting, you need to just keep them apart as much as possible and you absolutely have to allow your other kids to have a lock on their doors. Nobody should be bursting in. They deserve privacy. I don't know why you have to investigate it, just get a latch or something if you can't fit a proper lock.

I've seen this scenario twice.

In one case the younger siblings just withdrew completely and it has affected all aspects of life.

In the other the sibling (who was older) left the minute they could, spent as little time as possible at home and moved out at 17.

WTH?

he’s a teen with autism and some developmental delay.

what a vile thing to say as an adult.

understanding why a self conscious young teenage sibling might be embarrassed is one thing but saying that as an adult is just horrible.

you need to have a think about yourself.

I really didn’t get on with one of my sisters. As an adult after our Mother died I without any speeches or statements just pulled away and have had zero contact for 5 years now. If I think about my relatives and in laws and would I have chosen them as friends it certainly isn’t all of them. Some siblings just don’t get on with or without ND as a factor.

What does their Father think about all this?

You can't force them to get along OP. My parents tried that (no SEN, just a big age gap and very different personalities) and the more they pushed us together the more I pulled away. Now we're adults I'm polite in the family chat but have very firm boundaries. Fortunately we live a flight apart.

You can however insist that everyone living in the house is civil to everyone else. No getting in each others space, no making annoying noises just to irritate, no overreacting either.

I do feel quite sorry for your younger DS, I think a lock on his door so he has some protected space is a good idea, suggest it to him.

You need to:

Keep them apart as much as possible.

Talk to each separately about their impact on the other and how they can better deal with each other.

Anticipate situations that will trigger them and avoid / prepare for them.

I have two girls who generally have not got on well and are very different (one also ND, other very sensitive). And the above is essentially how we made it work.

Both are over 18 now, still living with us but basically have very little to do with each other most of the time. They respect each other's bedrooms. They are now OK if we have to travel together as a family.

There's no magic solution and no guarantee that they'll get on later in life. Chances are they probably won't as they're too different and there may be resentments on both sides.

While they're both living at home you have to referee as much as you can and give them both personal, private space. Forget family outings unless they're to wider family. Your 15 year old can stay at home if he wants, surely.

You have to adjust your expectations in this sort of situation and try and make life a bit easier for everyone, including you.

Also don't expect too much from therapy. The harsh reality is it's your responsibility to make sure things don't get out of hand and you need to keep 'parenting'. It got easier for us as the girls became more independent and had their own lives. They also didn't attend the same school after primary (not because of their relationship though).

Though meals out with just the 4 of us are still hardly worthwhile - it's all fine if a friend or wider family are there.

@anywhichone and @TokyoSushi i think you are probably right regarding the jealousy.

ds13 started to overtake him developmentally at about 10. It’s kind of sad for me too.

ds13 definitely gets lots of opportunities to do things. Most recently he was chosen to go on a 2 week overseas school trip. He was the youngest one to go, most of the others were 16 or 17. He went and had an amazing time.

I’m not sure about extra support for ds15, we tried cadets which he did like but he didn’t cope with the camps and he didn’t like losing his downtime. I’m so thrilled though with his part time job, I’m really hoping that this will help him a lot. He’s been trying to get a job for about a year with no success.

thankyou for all the suggestions and support. I think I’ll talk to dh today about locks for the doors even for both them.

we went to a friends house last night for a bbq, she has 2 teen daughters one is also nd, and the kids have all known each other since they are little. Probably more like cousins really. A lot of the time ds15 will just sit by himself or with me when we are with them but he was actually hanging out with them last time, friends dd15 and her boyfriend who is same age.

@Catshaveiteasy yes true. I suppose because most of ds15 therapy is around emotional regulation I hope it will help.

I think a lot of the time he does want to spend time with ds13. But he can’t see that when he is mean and teases him that the next day when he wants to show him some YouTube thing or something ds13 doesn’t want a bar of him.

ds15 loves making little movies and when they were younger ds13 would be in them. Ad they are older now ds13 just refuses cause he says he hates him and doesn’t want anything to do with him. Ds15 just struggles to understand how his actions one day connect to something else.

This.

Even you called him 'weird' just now, poor boy. He can't help being neuro divergent.

Spend lots of quality time 1:1 with each child, daily ideally. Make them feel treasured and well loved, avoid comparing the two. Find things the eldest can be successful in so his confidence is elevated.

I’m just trying to describe him as how others kids would see him.

i think he is amazing, to me anyway, he is kind and loving. He is very protective of me and always does little things for me. He is amazingly creative, great at art, painting, sculpting, writing. He is great with younger kids, I think because he still like playing outside. Dsd boyfriend has a young daughter who adores him, when they come over he plays on the trampoline with her and plays Lego or makes things for her. He often plays with dd10, he let her help when he was making the tree fort.

but there is no denying that some of the things he does others would see as weird. He dresses differently. Doesn’t care about brands or labels or anything or things matching. He makes lots of loud noises and sounds all the time. He quite often repeats a few sets of nonsense words over and over again. He still holds my hand when we go out, usually when he is feeling abit insecure. I work at his school so he will even sometimes hold my hand walking into school.

Yes I do try to do this. I never compare them. I try to spend 1:1 time with each even if just going to the shops or something.