Unpopular DD

[MissSunshine80]

Sorry if this is long winded… just need to get it all out!

How do you deal with your daughter being unpopular?
She was popular at primary and had lots of play dates, sleepovers and involved in dancing, swimming, gymnastics.

She went to a different secondary to her friends due to a house move and formed a small group of friends. She did struggle after Covid as I think she lost her self confidence and had some body confidence issues (this has now rectified itself and she has a great sense of style). She is a wonderful girl with lots of interests and is great company. She is involved in afterschool activities but nothing social unfortunately and her school don’t offer ANY non sporting clubs etc.

She is quiet and reserved with new people (not at home or with close family) and hates all the banter at secondary. She works hard and behaves well. I suspect she has a reputation for being swotty. She is definitely not a b and doesn’t get involved in dramas or gossiping.

She is struggling with a group of boys hassling her by shouting at her in the corridors and basically teasing for their amusement. They are clever enough to stop short of physically or verbally abusing her but it’s enough to make her feel on edge. When it peaked a few months ago school were good at sorting it but raising it ugly head again. I’ve just contacted school so hopefully they will be on it tomorrow. She says she knows she isn’t liked and doesn’t understand why. I tell her that they don’t know her and if they took the time and trouble to speak to her they would think she’s wonderful like we do.

To top it all her small friendship group is changing-some new girls have joined and initially she was thrilled to have a bigger group around her but now she is being pushed out by one of the new girls and her old friends are showing no support. DD isnt in classes with the girls in the group so it’s understandable that they are becoming closer but she is still upset. Thankfully she has some other friends to hang out with at school but she is obviously upset that she is being squeezed out and not included in their social events. She asked to join their group chat and they did so but they have another one that she isn’t included in. I don’t want her to feel she needs to beg to be included as she is worth far more than that.
thankfully she is a strong, resilient young woman and has a lovely family around her and we keep her spirits up by having days out etc but I worry, especially with exams coming up.
I just want this phase over so she can hopefully meet some likeminded, studious types to do her a levels.
before someone asks if she is neurodiverse - we have considered it because she struggles socially and we have spoken to her about it. She feels it isn’t autism and when She saw a psychologist for some sessions aftercovid lockdown, the psychologist suggested that the issues were all linked to self esteem.
anyone been through similar and can offer some hope?

The first thing that you need to do is stop placing any importance on popularity whatsoever. In the real world it means absolutely nothing. DD is 19 and left school last year - the kind and genuine groups of girls who kept to themselves are doing miles better than the ‘popular’ ones who are quickly getting humbled by the fact that they’re not so important after all. Encouraging your DD to be herself and not let them get her down is all you can do

If it's any consolation, my DD had a horrendous time at secondary school.

She was bullied for being gay, and ostracised by most of the girls in her year. She became friendly with a gay lad who was also being bullied, and through him, gained confidence and together they stood up to the homophobic insults. She left school at 16 and went to 6th form college, where suddenly being gay was cool, and she met lots of likeminded people, the same applied when she went to university. She and the gay lad are still best mates, he was her 'matron of honour' and she was his 'best man' at their weddings

I know it's corny, but your daughter WILL find her tribe. It just might not be at this particular school.

The school my DD attended had a supposedly robust anti bullying policy btw - that meant absolutely nothing and the pastoral care was completely and utterly ineffectual.

I want to hug her. She is lucky to have a loving mum who is onto the school.
It's not a good school if it has no non-sporty after-school clubs. Could you ask about the possibility of some being set up - a drama club that puts on a show every term, or a creative writing group, art club, chess club, debating society etc.

Does she do any extra curricular things elsewhere? If she makes strong friendships there, the school issue becomes less horrible.

Would she be interested in maybe joining a local drama club - ime, they are run by people who ensure everyone is included. Or if she is musical, an orchestra or choir?

Does she belong to guides or scouts? Would she consider this?

It is a cliche that teens find impossible to believe, but worth telling them over and over - start by being your own best friend. This means, if anyone judges you, mocks you or shuts you out, judge them: do you admire and like them for this behaviour? If not, decide to drop them. Practise thinking then feeling really powerful judgements and put downs of those pathetic boys. Imagine a shield force between you and them so their pathetic comments bounce right back at them, sliding off you. Their teasing can't hurt you if you have zero respect for them or their opinion. It takes practise to truly believe and feel this, but it is worthwhile.

If the girls she knows play cat and mouse, she might want to consider being quite cool with them and turning down any half-hearted invitations, not trying in any way to build the friendship further.

There must be other girls in her year, the year above and below, boys too maybe, who have similar issues. Can you ask the school to set up some lunchtime club they are all invited to. Encourage her to get to know some quieter, shyer pupils. She can't be the only 'swot'. Maybe the ones who work hard could form a study group. They will get A stars and rise like cream away from their bullies eventually. Loads of the happiest most successful people in the world didn't fit in at school.

How old is she?

Depending how far through she is, I would simply move her to a different school.

I know people who were bullied in school and left there by their parents and they deeply resent it.

I really don’t want her to be ‘popular’ with all that involves.
I just want her to be free to be her and accepted so she isn’t teased or sidelined.

She’s got a matter of weeks to go until her exams so we are literally counting down. It just seems like an eternity right now!

my daughter is similar but still at primary level. Everything I have read about this is about having a good relationship with them yourself - making sure they feel loved and supported at home, having family days out like you seem to do. I started a family movie night so that we have that link. Could you get her involved with a club outside school to give her a bit of a social lifeline? My DD is in a swim club but joining a choir or drama would give her a social life.

GCSEs? So she can move for A level, perhaps college? That’s good then.

Sorry, long post but I meant to say DS had similar problems and was diagnosed with ASD. It turned out he really wasn't reading social cues. there were boys who tried hard to befriend him but he didn't spot the signs. He had some idea that friendship is an instant and deep connection.

It happened again at uni, and i had to explain so many times - you may not have anything in common with these people right now, but if you hang out with them, you will end up having things in common through your shared history. This turned out to be true, and although he now has many friends who share his specific passions and hobbies, one of his closest friendship groups is just a bunch of lovely geeks who he pottered around with when they were all at a loose end during and after lockdown.

So if there are some girls at school who have no friends either, maybe she could start inviting them over, even if she feels they have nothing in common - going for a swim or bike ride at weekends, watching a movie with pizza at home, doing homework together then going for a hot chocolate. Bit by bit, friendships blossom.

In reality then there is absolutely nothing that you can do other than encourage her to rise above it and get her head down into revision. In just a few weeks it’ll be Easter and study leave when she’ll never have to see or speak to them ever again. I know how hard it feels because my DD went through the exact same thing with very similar timing, it’s so hard but just know that she will go so much further in the world than the nasty ‘popular’ girls. She will find her tribe at sixth form - onwards and upwards ❤️

My daughter was in the same position two years ago and faced a long summer ahead of her. She did NCS, took on extra shifts at work and threw herself into her transition work for sixth form.
She moved sixth form and thrives! Loads of friends, happy and didn't look back. The summer I was worried about passed quickly

My other suggestion would be extracurriculars run out of school. Something like air cadets, where there is weekly meets and also trips away together. She can form some close friendships there.

In my experience all the nicest people I know weren’t popular at school.
Is there a hobby your daughter might like to get into so she has a new non school group of friends and something that means more to her than the horrible views of idiotic teenagers?
Horses literally saved me as senior school was hateful.
But anything she might enjoy ( though animals in particular are so comforting) would be good.

I’m so sorry your DD is going through this

That really gives me hope for the future.
so glad for your DD ❤️

It’s so tricky, I really feel for her.

I would echo a PP and say are there any other kids who appear to be in a similar position - alone or somewhat on the edge of a group? They might not be the people she would naturally gravitate to but could still be a good friend.

I would also say, she only needs one or two friends. Just someone to sit with at lunch for example.

Yes she’s not going to the school sixth form but really excited for college so it’s a totally new start! ❤️

I'm so sorry to read this. It actually took me back 30 years because it sounded like my experience at secondary school.
I had boys and girls mocking me in the corridor. It was never physical and I felt it wasn't even bullying at the time. Looking back I realise it was. However, although it might seem minor compared to other types of physical bullying, it had a devastating affect on me. My already low self esteem was shattered and I thought there must be something seriously wrong with me to be singled out in this way. I felt like such a loser that I couldn't even tell my parents or teachers because I thought they'd think I was pathetic (of course they wouldn't have. I realise that now!).
I'm so pleased your daughter has told you and that it's been reported. That's such a positive step.
As she has low self esteem I think you need to emphasise that it's not her. There's nothing wrong with her (I wish someone had told me this). Tell her bullies target people who are shy or lacking in confidence because they know they won't fight back.
Also remind her that people will be much nicer to her once she leaves school. It blew my mind that I was treated like a laughing stock at school but as soon as I entered the adult world of work etc. everyone was nice to me and seemed to like me! School is like a different world where kids are so cruel but everyone seems to grow up and become kinder once they leave school. I wish I'd known this too because I thought I was forever going to be bullied.
I think teenage friendship groups change a lot over time so I hope she finds some decent and loyal friends. Does she do anything outside school? I know that when I was struggling with friendships at school I valued the friends I made at Guides.

It sounds very shitty but it will get better. The popularity contest of secondary does change a lot around 16; people grow up! These days I understand people stay on in education but there is always a marked difference in terms of academics where those kids who don't do the bantz suddenly are seen as the ones who are going on to better things.

So reminded me of my time at Secondary school. I’m in my 50s but I still remember being on the outside and picked on and lonely. College was a whole new game - mixing with older students, being liked and included and great tutors. Finding my tribe. DD just needs to get through the next few weeks and walk away with her head held high. New beginnings await.

Reading your posts, to me you are looking for her to find her tribe?

The phrasing around popularity is misleading.

She will get there by the sounds of it she has good insight, which shows maturity. I would let her know you see her and see how she is being resilient and helping herself as much as she can.

I would encourage outside school social opportunities also.

You are a lovely lot Mumsnet! ❤️ thank you for all your words of wisdom and positive stories.
she is does have hobbies but unfortunately not really social ones- she does love them though and she gets on brilliantly with her teachers. They boost her self esteem. She does a singing/guitar class and the teacher is planning on getting some of them together to form a group so that should be great when it happens.
perhaps we will encourage her to get a part time job once the exams are over.
Thankfully she does have some friends to hang out with at school at lunch/break and they have been shunned by the new group as well so they have something to bound over! Sounds like they are a likeminded group and DD said they have more in common so fingers crossed this continues. Just think she’s hurt that she can be cast aside by people she was friends with for so long.

Another school survivor here! A big hug to your DD and assurance that she is great - these boys have a problem and it’s worrying it’s allowed to persist. I had horrible bullying throughout school and it did affect my self-esteem. I did go on to have a brilliant time at university - absolutely some of the best years of my life so far. School cliques will fade.

If she was younger I'd be more worried but tbh she has weeks left, I'd just encourage her to push through and remember that most people don't keep in touch with many people from school in adult life. I still keep in touch with one person. The day I left school was and still is the best day of my life.

Do you think she would enjoy socialising at an activity that's completely separate from school, with different people? Something like Stagecoach that could also help build her confidence?