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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Appropriate punishment for these things:

52 replies

Remmy123 · 14/12/2023 16:22

13 year old boy:

At school:
Always late for classes despite warnings
messing around in class (tapping ruler, chatting)
homeeork incomplete
not correct equipment
smirking when teacher tells him off
terribke report (coasting in all subjects)

At home:

never does any chores (we don't give many)
messy room
doesn't do homework unless we tell him / done to terrible standard
doesn't hang or put clothes away messy room
never comes off Xbox when asked

i am end of my tether the school emails and phone calls

I think he has no respect for parents or teachers!

any advice welcome

thanks

OP posts:
Frasers · 14/12/2023 17:28

You seem really keen on punishment. But you don’t seem very keen to talk to him.

Original poster
Remmy123 · 14/12/2023 17:39

@Frasers ive done the talking and not the punishment! That's why I am here / my softly approach of chatting isn't working

OP posts:
notthisagaindear · 14/12/2023 17:42

Some useful stuff on this thread. Going to take notes tomorrow!

daytriptovulcan · 14/12/2023 17:48

Turn off the wifi till he starts listening.
In our house devices go to the sin bin until a little compliance is shown. We have a mesh wifi which allows you to exlude individual devices.
This is just 1 idea.

CherryJones1 · 14/12/2023 17:50

Piling on punishments doesn't work. Just gives a teen like this absolutely nothing to lose and behaviour worsens.

Are you sure he doesn't have any additional needs? You describe a child with classic ADHD

Lilithlogic · 14/12/2023 17:56

Maybe he just has a smirking rest face? Is there something else to add to his smirking at his teachers that warrants punishment. At least he is being quiet.

Lilithlogic · 14/12/2023 17:59

And to be fair some of his so called crimes seem to be you clutching at straws. Not doing homework up to your standard? Wtf, at least he is doing his homework

Original poster
Remmy123 · 14/12/2023 18:07

@Lilithlogic the homework is illegible - not complete - messy - half done and finished in seconds then flung into his bag no care given at all

also tapping his ruler in class, distracting others messing around

he wasnt like this in primary or year 7 and knows how to behave at football training etc friends houses etc

he has just said 'I'll only go to the school meeting if I get my x box back!'

OP posts:
CherryJones1 · 14/12/2023 18:20

So already you're getting kickback. Honestly, just relax a bit. Some of these 'crimes' are very normal for his age and all you'll do is alienate him further by picking him up on everything

Explain natural consequences when he doesn't do something, set him up to succeed where you can and actually help him do so.

NotLactoseFree · 14/12/2023 18:27

Part of me sympathises. We have a lot of this. A lot of it IS linked to his ADHD.

But... while I'm sympathetic up to a point, we expect effort and improvements ALL the time otherwise what is the point of a ND diagnosis? It's not just a get out of jail card, it's an acknowledgement that some things are hard but that doesn't mean they don't still need to be done.

A key thing is the gaming - DS is allowed to game, sure, but from early on expectations were that he only games if he's done all the other things. We still fight regularly about his room being a mess and not putting his clothes away and I practically have to stand over him to get it done, but the basic expectation is there.

Homework is definitely something we all have to work on. He's a million times better than he was but yes, I have to remind him and yes I have to chase him and yes, sometimes I have to sit there while he's doing it. Tedious as hell, but it is what it is.

Zero tolerance policy for rudeness at home means there's a) less rudeness at school and b) that he understands why we're not at all sympathetic if he says things to teachers that isn't okay. He still sometimes doesn't get it. He'll be rude but genuinely seems to think he's just standing up for himself. I'm not particularly sympathetic to that viewpoint. He needs to learn about tone and style and approach.

Actual punishments are imposed when specific and stated requirements are not met. "DS - if you are not out the door on time, I will be docking your pocket money by X for every day you leave late."

Original poster
Remmy123 · 14/12/2023 18:34

@CherryJones1 he gets around 4 detentions a week at the moment I don't think that's normal for his age.

This has been going in since September he has had many chances and given very clear expectations from home and school and he is ignoring them.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 14/12/2023 18:35

If someone can't then no amount of 'talking' will help.
What will help is understanding the issues and coming up with strategies.

Strategies may include
. a fidget toy in his hand rather than tapping the ruler
. phone / xbox out of room when doing homework
. typing homework rather than writing
. you discussing homework before he does it and agreeing 'completion criteria'
. you sitting with him to help him keep focus
. asking school to place him at the front so he gets less distracted
. help tidying room with you directing him, maybe a list of things 'tidy room means: books in bookcase, clothes in laundry basket or on chair, mugs downstairs, bed made'

But I am coming from the pov of being a parent of 2 DC with SEN, the older of whom struggled with all the above. If he's just idle then other strategies are of course needed.

Faddd · 14/12/2023 18:38

I have to say, my first thought was ADHD like someother pp said. With some defensiveness thrown in too. Im not convinced there is much in it for him to be getting loads of detentions, it seems more likely he cant get his act together to avoid them. He sounds like my 16 yr old who was diagnosed with ADHD at 13.

Scarletttulips · 14/12/2023 18:39

He has a lot of dyslexia traits

being late
being messy
annoying on class

How is his memory and processing skills?

Swishyfishy · 14/12/2023 18:44

The school related stuff can be dealt with by the school.

From experience it’s easier for them to do the same chore each day. Putting the dry dishes away or whatever.

can you support him to tidy and put his clothes away initially to help set the routine.

make pocket money or screen time dependant on completion of these

NotLactoseFree · 14/12/2023 18:44

Remmy123 · 14/12/2023 18:34

@CherryJones1 he gets around 4 detentions a week at the moment I don't think that's normal for his age.

This has been going in since September he has had many chances and given very clear expectations from home and school and he is ignoring them.

Hang on, so this is all completely new? And he's in what, year 9? I'd be questioning why there's this massive change in his behaviour and attitude. What is going on? I mean, a bit of rudeness, more messiness, more backchat is probably pretty normal at this age, but if he wasn't getting detentions, wasn't struggling with homework etc and now he suddenly is, I'd see that as a red flag for something new and different in his life?

I assume also therefore that his actual grades are dropping as well?

mamaduckbone · 14/12/2023 18:47

We gave ds1 a real short sharp shock at that age when he was behaving in a similar way - on report at school, weekly emails home etc.
grounded, no phone outside of necessities (I think we let him have an hour a day), no PlayStation, and the thing that had the biggest impact was no football. He was horrified, but our reasoning was that his activities were a privilege not a right, and why should we drive him here there and everywhere at weekends if he wasn't doing what he should be. It worked - we never had to do it again.

Swishyfishy · 14/12/2023 18:56

Also consider who he is playing with online, how they are talking to each other and what games he’s playing, this can influence greatly.

He's communicating something with his behaviour. How does he feel about school, friends, home life, siblings, school transport, gaming,

Workawayxx · 14/12/2023 20:15

cunningartificer · 14/12/2023 17:10

One thing that's really useful with teenagers, as a teacher, is ignoring the secondary behaviour. If he's emptying the dishwasher, that's great; don't ask him to do it happily but don't fret if he's crying, just ignore the secondary behaviour ( tears, smirking, eye rolling) and focus on the primary. If someone is doing something as a teacher I praise the primary behaviour and ignore smirks etc and eventually they don't bother with the annoying secondary behaviour as it doesn't make an impact. If you react you get into a ridiculous spiral where it's not enough (for example) to apologise they have to sound sincere. My mantra was always 'sincerity can come later; I need you to learn the words and form of an apology and be able to deliver it appropriately; once you're an adult you'll learn about how to act with more sincerity'. Make getting rid of the secondary behaviour an adult skill. Actually doing what they're told is the basis. Also agree with the breaking down small tasks; apart from anything else, that makes you able to reward each stage with praise, and the more you can sincerely praise the more they will comply.

This is so so helpful. Taking notes for my soon to be teen!

MrsElsa · 14/12/2023 20:23

Why put an xbox/tv in his room?!!! Screens are addictive, they literally affect the brain. At 13 he is not able to self regulate screen time, you have to enforce boundaries and sensible limits. You have to protect and defend him.

Think of it as setting the conditions for a child to succeed. If I put you in a sweet shop and told you to eat better for your health, you would fail because all you see around you are sweets. Whereas if I put you in a nice little cafe and told you to eat better for your health, you would find it much easier because you're surrounded by sandwiches, salads etc.

Singleandproud · 14/12/2023 20:35

All behaviour is communication. Not caring and not being bothered is often because they are scared to fail, you can't fail if you don't try.

I would remove the Xbox and agree a reward system he can earn it back for use at the weekend by ...list your expectations - (completing homework 5 x nights and no detentions (earns X box Saturday) , emptying the dish washer 5 X night (X box Sunday), removing crockery from bedroom and all clothes in the laundry hamper (Friday night)

You may well have to sit with him whilst he does his homework. We put YouTube on the family TV and will watch freesciencelessons on whatever she's learning then quiz each other. I'll get her to teach me whatever she's doing in maths and we'll do the maths tasks together. I read the books she's studying in english before she does them so we can discuss them. DD is autistic so doing homework alone is challenging but she enjoys doing it together.

ILiveInSalemsLot · 14/12/2023 20:47

I'm not a fan of punishments either but I'd be taking that Xbox away after a conversation about playing on it too much, not coming off, not doing chores and not doing homework.
I've explained to my dc that gaming is for downtime. It's not a priority. Homework is a priority. Chores are next.

I would also sit down with him, help with any homework issues, check it, make him redo it if it's rubbish. Which is what I have done when ds went through similar.
Same with chores. Check if he's done them correctly otherwise redo.

This might seem like a pain but it's a long term investment.

Squeaky2023 · 14/12/2023 23:06

Frasers · 14/12/2023 16:40

I didn’t punish, I spoke to my child. Explained why it was problematic, asked what they would do to improve, set my expectations, let my disappointment in them be very obvious, and I kept the dialogue open, praising improvement, disappointment or even anger over failures, and it worked.

i don’t believe the go to should be get them to do something out of fear. Which is what punishment is.

so, whilst folks are enjoying coming up with punishments for your child, what conversations have you had with them over their behaviour.

I agree with Frasers. Life has natural consequences and if your school is anything like my son's school, they'll be all over him with detentions and behaviour points for the pettiest of things.
Punishment just feels like revenge to me and a flashpoint. I was quite happy to lie to my overly strict mother for fear of being moaned at or not allowed to do something acceptable and normal for my age.

Original poster
Remmy123 · 15/12/2023 07:55

Well this morning he hasn't bothered to do his maths homework despite me telling him to do it last light - I could have another chat to him as Fraser suggests but this approach isn't working - not all kids respond to the same method. He doesn't give a sh*t if we are disappointed.

OP posts:
SecondUsername4me · 15/12/2023 08:15

Let him face the natural consequences of not completing homework - detention or held back at lunch to do it or whatever the schools process is.

Then tonight when he gets in, no xbox/phone etc, til he has shown you all completed homework that he has received

My dd knows she has to write "no homework set" against each lesson in her planner if she didn't get any, so I know that it wasn't just her failing to write it down, and I check it against homework each week before I sign it because they get a red mark for an unsigned planner.

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