Am I I being a 'helicopter parent' re homework?

[pharmachameleon]

I was listening to a podcast earlier which was discussing different listening styles. During the podcast the presenter said you would be acting as a helicopter parent if you knew when your child's homework was due in, if you helped them study and if you ensured they had their PE kits each necessary day.
He went on to say the subconscious message you're giving your child is 'you are nothing without me.'
I realised I do all these things for my DS who has just turned 13. Am I over the top? He definitely wouldn't study as well for tests if I didn't help him prepare and test him on each topic but maybe I need to leave him to it more?
I give him lots of freedom and responsibility in other areas. Eg he would book the cinema or golf for himself and friends, they eat out on their own, he goes out to play for hours etc etc.
At what point does encouraging your child with homework become a helicopter parent? Would love to know what others do.

Well if you have a bright, independent, organised and driven child who knows when to ask for help from a teacher/parent/friend then obviously it is counterproductive to get involved. Because if they are that way inclined then they learn to cope alone sooner and fly by A level/uni.
However, if your child struggles in any way of course you should help if you can. Sometimes a tiny amount of help can make a huge difference like helping them discover how they revise best (trying different approaches etc). A good school should really teach them this, but not all schools do. In addition, there are really good teachers and pretty bad ones out there so even a child who is able to do very well can flounder if they end up with a rubbish teacher/constant supply etc

The main point being that a good parent is not driven by their own anxiety but by being supportive towards their child and really listening to them and trying to understand where they really are and where their passions/talents are. You also just need to be honest with yourself about your child’s underlying abilities eg no point expecting a child to get an 8 in Maths GCSE if they have always been below average but there is a point in teaching them to work hard and be proud of getting an extra 1 point, for example. Especially if they need it to pursue a career they like the idea of.
It is all far easier in a good school that communicates well and really helps them chose the right GCSEs etc that open doors for them.

Thanks @Araminta1003 and everyone else. Replies have been really helpful. He's fairly bright but needs a bit of help motivating himself. He's much rather play on his phone/X box/ go out with friends than study. He wouldn't ask the teacher for extra help I don't think. He would basically do the bare minimum left to his own devices to be honest and when I test him/encourage him with tests he does really well.
I think if I left him to fail the teachers would maybe write him off? Don't know.

@pharmachameleon I agree with a lot that @Araminta1003 says. I just ensured I facilitated organisation and an expectation of commitment to education. I came on MN way ahead of them starting secondary and read up on how other parents helped to organise their children. We implemented some systems at home to give independence, daily tick list, homework chart to record it on a noticeboard so visible to them and us, timetables in several places in the house, bags emptied when they came in put into labelled magazine files for the next day they needed them. Bags packed the night before so no last minute rush. We had a homework time slot at home, all homework was to be at least started, if there was no homework they could watch youtube but it had to be something related to what they were studying in school. Instead of how was your day, they talked through each subject, just brief ie maths we did angles in triangles sort of thing. It meant we could widen discussion on their topics at the family dinner if needed.

I know you said he would much rather play on his xbox/phone I mean who wouldn't but this leads to a conversation about the fact that you don't live with your parents, he won't live with you forever, you want him to earn enough money to pay for the latest console and phone and that comes from a well paid job. Look ahead at sixth forms for grades on entry, some subjects for A levels want certain grades. Maybe even look at a university and their entry grades. Look at apprenticeships, jobs, salaries, house prices, mortgage calculators. I know this seems crazy but the earlier you plant that seed the better. School will end, it is short. I am totally for hovering over any child to help them academically. Does he understand the grade curve and how some parents are paying thousands for their child's education? The playing field isn't level.

The state school we sent our children too was incredible, well above average progress 8 and I have to tell you what the school did. They had an amazing open evening at the start of year 7 about sources, ie where you look on the internet for your information for homework for all subjects but it was put on by the History department. They literally had you (parents and children) go through 4 different rooms and listen to 4 different sets of testimony about a Victorian murder victim. Imagine a "body" laid out (year 11 drama student) under a sheet covered in blood, they give you results from the coroner using the body to show bruises on the arms etc, next room is the bar (again filled with drama students dressed up) you hear the testimony of one of the bar wenches, next room, police station, you hear the police report, as you make your way to another room there are drama students singing who will buy my sweet red roses from Oliver, carrying baskets of flowers. Amazing. A witness tells of seeing someone running from where the body was found and a description of the person. At the end the staff talk to you about reliable sources and those that are not as reliable. They also did other subject open evenings over the years to help the children.

The school did everything they could to make a child succeed so we did the same at home. My children have now both finished secondary school so we are on the other side of this. The higher the GCSE grades the more choices they have for the next step.

Thanks so much @AnythingForYou. I think we do very similar to what you did with your DCs and homework. My DS writes his homework and tests with due dates on his whiteboard so we all know what's due when. He always has to put his phone away when he comes home and spends around an hour each night on homework or revision. He packs his bags the night before and puts his shoes and uniform out.
We haven't had a chat yet about required grades for university.
Your DCs school sounds amazing!

I remind my year 7 son daily to check homework, pack his bag, check PE kit. Once the habit is ingrained, I'll stop. Helpful reminders are useful, whatever age you are.

I ask my DC if they have homework and if they need any resources (computer time, printer ink, craft materials, etc.) or any support with it. I don't push the issue though. I let them have the natural consequence of being in trouble with their teacher or missing out in the class reward for completed homework, or a poor mark for low effort, because that can act as a really good motivator to do better. I would never do their homework for them, i am definitely not a helicopter parent. But I think paying no interest in their academic life is not just benign neglect, but actually neglect.

@pharmachameleon The school is incredible from discipline, pastoral and teaching staff. If a student isn't doing their homework there is intervention rather than punishment, more find out why and support them as a first step.

Always good to look ahead with grades for university and A levels too just to see options. We visited our old unis when the eldest was around year 8 as we were in the area for a wedding. Good for them to get a concrete feel of what one is. Plus what hard graft is, ie helped take apart and relocate a shed including levelling ground, lugging bags of gravel, laying gravel, lifting the roof back onto the shed. They ached the next day but made them know they wanted indoor office jobs not landscaping jobs. They help garden, unpack supermarket shopping, have chores that are non-negotiable ie no money, that means choice, there isn't a choice. It gives them an understanding of all the shitty repetitive jobs adults have to do and one day, in their own houses.

I didn't have any help with school work, had to iron my own uniform at 11, was a latch key kid at 8 with a younger sibling in tow. I was determined it would be different for my children. I just tried to put things in place to help them, not do it for them.

You sound like you are doing great, being involved and engaged with his education.

13 is the time you need to start working on enabling him to organise, study and revise more independently. So work on him learning how to study during his GCSEs/NAT5s so he can do it more independently during his A Levels/Highers and has it nailed if he goes to uni. But never stop supporting and motivating them!

Schools don't have enough time to teach revision techniques and most dc do need a bit of help to work out what works best for them. ds found the videos on you tube provoked him to think about what things to think about when deciding how he would study, there are some specific ones on flash cards etc too.

Thanks so much @Blanketpolicy. I'll watch this with him later. I'm sure he'll love me for it 😂

@pharmachameleon what worked well with ds was telling him I had seen it and it looked really interesting - things such as that I didnt realise the difference between recognition and recall. Asking him to watch it himself as only 10mins (I think), suggesting to take notes to remember all the different ideas and having a think about it himself and then listening to him say what he thought would work and what wouldn't for him, sound interested and provoke his thoughts with questions such as does he think different subjects would need different techniques, and encouraging him to plan to give it a go.

Then later asking how it went and saying thats great you have given it a go and worked out that did/didn't work and suggesting trying other techniques for other subjects and to let me know as I find it really interesting.

It can be hugely difficult to find the right path and It absolutely depends on the child. Obviously the more independent they are, the better, and they do need to see consequences for their lack of organisation /effort. But there are some kids who will just keep getting it wrong and for our family, our decision is that the right thing has to be to help, where needed. It’s difficult to find the right balance, and I’m sure sometimes I get it wrong, but I have to trust myself that when my kid is overwhelmed, she needs help. I have one who has never needed support since primary, and one who at 14 still does, on some days even to pack a school bag. It’s ok to let them fail, but if it becomes a pattern, with no resolution, despite sanctions/encouragement etc., parents have to work out, without a crystal ball, whether stepping in or stepping away is right for their child. Tough decision to be honest. You do what is you think is right for you and your kid, at each point on their journey. And as people are saying, don’t let a podcast make you feel bad. It’s a view. Something to consider, try on and take back to the store if it doesn’t fit right. Or maybe save for later. Who knows!

I'm a helicopter and I would like to get off!
I think it's easy to not helicopter if they are getting on well with something but when you see a week of negative marks for forgetting homework, and you go into their room and see it sitting on their desk, it's so hard not to say - have you done/packed your homework?
Mine are capable in lots of ways but I definitely need to remind them of stuff to do with school or it's forgotten. I've had "school doesn't care if I bring it in or not" a couple of times, so I kind of feel like I need to care.
One of my friend's kids go to a school where they phone the parent if the child forgets the PE kit. That's Year 10! She could not take it in, they get a strike mark and have to sit out PE but she ends up grudgingly taking it in. Or better - reminds him to take it in the morning. I am not sure how I would cope with that kind of school.

Nephew got a detention for being late for class the other day
he was late because he was in the loo
he got to the loo late because the queues were massive
the queues are massive because they don't have all the loos open at break

unbelievable that a child is punished for doing a basic human function

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew yes same from my neighbor..her son is only given access to toilet at break...some are broken...huge queues as only time they can be used. She said its a constant source of stress.

And that is also their only short break !! Who wants to use ot just for thr toilet

I think parents really need to start standinf up firmly against these toilet sanctions snd cruel systems

I made it very clear to mine that once they were in High School they took responsibility for taking in what they needed. If the PE kit isn't in their washing basket, it didn't get washed. If they didn't take it to school, they work the smelly school kit. They don't tend to want to do that very often.

I ask my dc what homework he is doing when he is sat at his desk surrounded by paperwork. I offer to quiz him for tests and I ask him about the topics he is covering in school etc. When positive things happen at school, I’m the first person he what’s apps. I see it as giving a s* about his life and future, if people think it’s being a helicopter I don't care 🤣.

I read all of this and then I understand the gulf between children who are neurotypical and those who are neurodivergent.