Feeling the 'turn'

[Trepidfox]

Hi all not sure what I am looking for, maybe just a hand hold. 12 year old DD has changed quite a bit over the last few months. She started year 8 in Sept and I am feeling some real changes I'm struggling to cope with. The mood swings I feel are pretty normal but she has become secretive with her phone, changed the passcode and started scrolling at night in bed. DH told her Sunday she needs to change it back so we know what it is and said it should be charged away from her bedside at night. She has not done either (he checked this morn) he has now said it needs to be confiscated at night after a certain time (only to me, we haven't broached this with DD yet)

She is becoming secretive in general (which I think is normal?) but he is really struggling with this. They had a big talk on Sunday about all these things, personally I feel he talks at her and doesn't really listen or ask her questions. We have a good relationship but I definitely feel she is starting to become less willing to confide in me. She has told me that she becomes quite fearful about world events (war, climate change etc) making her feel like she doesn't want to be alive in this time 🙁 She has mentioned suicide being a worry, we've talked and she said she has intrusive thoughts about it. I am calm when we have talked about this but inside my heart is literally breaking that at 12 years old this is even on her radar. They have been talking a lot about suicide at school (anti bullying)

Dad is very insistent on discipline and feels she is being manipulative with me (I am more willing to be empathetic to hormones and emotions)

Is confiscating the phone at night the way to go? I said it's a bit hypocritical that we scroll in bad and his response was we're both adults, she is still a child and therefore she should do what she's told. We have been pretty relaxed about tech/gaming usage and I think that rather make it an issue where we're threatening punishments (removing/confiscating) that I slowly get her to reduce her time on devices? Am I being too soft?

From reading other threads on here I totally understand this is small potatoes at this stage but I am terrified that if we get this bit wrong we will end up with much bigger issues in the future.

If you made it this far, thank you for reading!

I don’t think this is ‘small potatoes’ (whatever that is!). Your child has told you she thinks about suicide. She might be scrolling suicide sites late into the night and you’re not stopping her. You need to get professional help for her immediately.

I agree that charging her phone downstairs at night is really important. I'd set a clear time limit on that. And know her pass code and tell her you'll be checking her phone regularly, with her present.

It's hard to row back on this when you haven't done it from the start.

I do think the secrecy is normal. It's painful but they need to separate. It's important to create opportunities for her to talk and you to listen and accept. So your dh might need to wind his neck in.

My teen is 14 and was staying up until early hours scrolling so now we charge the phone in a different room each night and they wake up with a traditional alarm clock instead.

I don't agree with telling her you'll regularly check the phone though. That will just encourage her to delete things.

As long as you know the pass code and can check if you want that's enough imo.

Why don’t you all charge your phones downstairs overnight? It’s healthier. And if you and dh really resent doing that you’ll truly understand how she feels about it. It will be good for you to all do this together.

I think you are right to be thinking about this and asking for input.

You might consider a screen time control program, so that the phone switches off at a certain time in the evening - it's easier than confiscating the phone or battles to get it from her every evening. Also, if you haven't already, make sure you're blocking inappropriate sites on her phone. In my opinion, you are being too soft; it is very difficult for teens to regulate their phone usage, and they really do need their sleep (for growth, concentration, mood, school work). You and your husband are adults, your husband is right on that point.

Make it a condition of her having access to the phone at all that you know her pass code. Talk to her about if/how you would check her phone. I haven't done it with my DD15 in a long time, but I do know what apps she uses and we have downtime and screen time limits for particular apps.

Secretiveness is normal. Being in her room a lot of the time, also normal. Talking to you less, also. It is good that both you and your husband are involved in her life.
I think pretty much every teen could profit from counseling at one point or another.

@Xmaswomble its not threats of suicide its more the topic that is being discussed quite a bit at school at the moment and how upsetting it is. We do monitor everything as much as we can. Her phone is on a child's account settings, I monitor usage/apps etc but I agree it is absolutely concerning. She doesn't have social media from everything I can see. Her youtube history is not concerning, appreciate she can delete though. I am reaching out hence asking for advice

@Familytravelnovice this is exactly what I am planning to do

She has told me that she becomes quite fearful about world events (war, climate change etc) making her feel like she doesn't want to be alive in this time 🙁 She has mentioned suicide being a worry, we've talked and she said she has intrusive thoughts about it.

Your child needs professional help to stop this escalating into at best, horrendous anxiety. I don't need to point out the worst case.

She's far too young to be allowed her phone all night in her room. It's so addictive and will affect her sleep and mood.

Mine kept their phones downstairs at bedtime until after their GCSEs. It caused a lot of aggro some nights (not all), and DH quite often said to just leave it, let them get on with it. I'm glad I persevered as I know one of them would not have got the exam results that she did.

@WineAndFireside I agree. When I say tech I mean gaming as in roblox and more recently another anime game that she plays with friends from school (whatsapp call) we've always had limits such as off by 7.30/8pm and then we're in the living room together until bed but it's the after that has been a new thing. She had had youtube for a while so I know that needs to be monitored. I have blocked adult content via the sky settings but I know stuff can slip through

@museumum i agree with this, he thinks that she's a child therefore she should do as we say but I don't think it's a good example. His argument is he is at work all day and it's the only time he gets to look at his phone. His job means he is on the go a day, he's not at a desk and has a long drive in and out so I get it but still think it doesn't look great

Mine aren't teenagers just yet, but not far off - and I think modelling the way you want them to behave is going to have far better results than telling them they're still a child so they need to listen to you and do as they're told!

Leaving everyone's phone downstairs to charge is a good thing all round, we all of us need to use our time better, I have been shocked how many hours I'm on mine some days (I used the monitoring app it came with to find out), and that has definitely prompted me into using it less.

@keye I understand, suicide has featured heavily throughout my life via friends and family members. I am absolutely taking this seriously, it's just so upsetting that this is even a topic now. She has said with all the anti bullying work they are focusing on at school at the moment it is discussed very frequently (percentages of teens that commit suicide etc)

You have 2 seperate issues but they do overlap.
The phone - be strict now. Really strict. No phones overnight. No changes of password and reserve the expectation that her phone and internet use can be monitored if you have concerns. Think about what apps she has and where she is looking. Take the phone away until she changes the passcode back.
The intrusive thoughts you need to get to the bottom of too. This could be a form of OCD and if it is, is unlikely to go away by itself.
Parenting teens is very different to parenting younger children. It's a balance between keeping them safe and letting them go. One tip I read which I will pass on - incentives work much better than sanctions for this age group. Set her up to win. Be on her side.

@Beamur this is great advice. Intrusive thoughts are awful. I have a recollection as a child realising that my parents were going to die someday and it became a real issue for me, especially at bed time and I would wind up in tears. I can't say that anything changed it I guess I somehow got over it? Anyway I don't want to be passive about any of this so will consider all suggestions

All my DCs had to hand in their phones at 9pm until they were 16 and had done their GCSEs. Just like they were expected to eat dinner as a family and exercise regularly (did not matter what sport/exercise but some is important). Not sure that allowing a phone at night for a 12 year old is normal? It certainly is not in my friendship circle. Most of the kids got phones in Year 6 to walk to school with parental settings and strict boundaries are enforced. We were never allowed to call our friends age 12 at night or watch TV or go on the Gameboy so I am not sure why it should be any different for DCs these days.

Personally I think it is madness allowing a 12 year old access to tech at night. Sleep/food/exercise are all important parts of mental health as well as talking to children regularly about everything. They will ask lots of difficult questions as they grow up, the world is a scary place and they find out about all sorts at school and online and from other friends.

Why not create a place where all of you put your phones at night so it does not seem like a discipline measure? I would explain it as a health measure so you all sleep better. Then I would just talk to your DD to find out what else is going on in her life, friendship issues/school work/difficulties with teachers etc. How much has she been educated on how toxic the News and the Internet can be etc?

@Araminta1003 dd was given a phone in year 6 exactly as you described. It has only been recently that she has been using at night. Stupidly her alarm is on it which is a massive blunder by us. Have already purchased an alarm clock. She did have a fitbit for her alarm which she no longer wears. She is active in sports clubs and guides and we don't have phones at the table ever. It's just this habit that has crept in recently.

We don't put TV news on (that's another thread altogether!) in the past when she was little she has become upset over news stories she had seen from time to time. In talking to her the other day she said she remembered seeing the war on Ukraine on newsround once and it upset her.

I feel your pain OP, I have a 12 year old son in year 8, and he is a law to himself. Do not remember my eldest being like this. The only discipline for his horrendous attitude is by removing all his devices. He hates me doing that, and soon falls back in line until the next time.

Just try get through this puberty stage, hormones all over. Their minds and bodies are changing, they are going through a normal stage in life, I just keep reminding myself of that.

We all (over) indulge in tech in the living room roughly 8ish till 9 when we’re not out at activities. Then phones/iPad/switch go on charge downstairs. Kids go to bed and read and dh and I watch something together then go to bed and read.
I think there’s nothing wrong with some social media scrolling time. But, it definitely shouldn’t be in bed at night.

“We don't put TV news on (that's another thread altogether!) in the past when she was little she has become upset over news stories she had seen from time to time. In talking to her the other day she said she remembered seeing the war on Ukraine on newsround once and it upset her.”

She sounds very sensitive so you need to talk to her about these things. A 12 year old will hear about the war in Gaza at school too and the parents need to fill in the gaps in a child friendly manner/reassure them in the best way possible. The most important thing with teens is that they keep talking to you about anything that bothers them or worries them, however small. They also tend to misunderstand a lot of stuff and blow it out of proportion, all part of the territory. Raging hormones/them not being quite themself for a while is all normal but you need to avoid them losing themselves by keeping the communication open.

We don't put TV news on (that's another thread altogether!) in the past when she was little she has become upset over news stories she had seen from time to time.

I mentioned earlier getting her professional help because you said about her intrusive thoughts. Now I'm going to tell you it's what I wished someone had advised me to do with my DD. She also couldn't watch/listen to the news. She is now early 20s and has intense anxiety surrounding her health, world issues, travelling on public transport, I could go on.

She needed intervention when she started being frightened by the world and I didn't seek it out for her because I didn't recognise the potential her thoughts had.

I deeply regret not getting her some help, she is doing it now but her life is many times harder that perhaps it could have been, had I known what she needed back then

@keye thank you for your insight, it's exactly what I need to hear. I am so sorry that to hear of your dds experience, I will absolutely take your advice seriously. I wish the best for you and you're daughter and I am really happy to hear she is seeking out help and with your support 💐

@Araminta1003 she is sensitive and empathetic. She has a close group of friends that she has a good connection with. I think I/we have been too relaxed with the phone and so it's going to be hard but I agree we should all set an example and going to chat with DH later so we're on the same page

I really think that this is a deeper issue and that she needs professional help, possibly for anxiety or even neurodiversity. It is not normal for a 12 year old to be so sensitive about things they’ve seen on the news, spoken about at school etc.