DD 15 angry and full of nastiness

[Flyhigher]

How do you cope when your teen girl is so nasty.
She literally take me my breath away with her nastiness. I'm a gen x mum. Had no real exposure to mean girls. I avoided them at school. And at work. Now I live with one. How does anyone cope? I'm on the brink of moving out. This cannot go on. It's been about 4 years now. Steadily getting nastier. She gets stronger every day. Husband does a bit. But cannot really deal with her. Neither can I. It sort of runs in the family a bit. This level of nastiness is pslyschological torture. I think she's neurodiverse. But it doesn't really matter. How do or did people cope?

Big hugs. Not sure what the nastiness is to advise.

My mum and I have always had a tough/testy relationship. I think we're too similar. She's my best mate now. It's still not always plain sailing but much easier.

Interestingly, the fact she didn't like herself much meant that she allowed a lot of disrespect to slide, whereas my Dad is a silent treatment guy so I still darent say boo to him. Maybe just say 'That was a horrible thing to say.' And then ignore her. Sort her own tea etc.

Really depends what she's saying or doing though and I've only been a teenage daughter , never mum to one. Good luck.

Agree with the PP.
Once she's nasty ignore her, stop doing things for her and being around her.

She's rude. Says go away. Says I'm stupid. Shouts. Screams. Won't answer any questions. Lies to my face.

She screams if I ask her to be nice. She says I don't remember anything. I asked her about a piece of music she was listening to and she did two dances a year ago and asked which dance it belonged to, there was a domestic violence song and a song about death. One had a black costume and the other nude costume. I've only seen it performed twice.
She called me stupid and was vile. Husband just made no eye contact. And she let rip as I cried.
It's complicated as I've done some things that don't help. But I've suffered now for three years. And now I just wish I wasn't here.

Have a look at Lisa Damour’s books on raising teenage girls and listen to her podcast. She’s very good.

Sorry you are going through this op. It is very hard. You have to focus on the fact that this is a phase and you will both emerge from this ok but it may be when she’s eighteen or nineteen when things start to improve. So in the meantime you need support for yourself and support for your dd.

In order to individuate as an adult, your dd has to cut herself off from you and that involves rejecting you and your values. This process is painful for her. Your job is not to follow her up and down the emotional roller coaster but to step back slightly and just be a steady rock while she rages all around you. Don’t get tempted in to the petty arguments and rows. Step back, step out, step away. Only engage when she is being civilised. Be calm and tell her that speaking in that way is disrespectful and then leave the house if you have to. Let her figure things out for herself and suffer the natural consequences of making the wrong choices.

I am sorry your dh is not being more supportive. He should be a team mate, not acting like a referee. This is very common though with the father> daughter dynamic.

Most important though, try and get your dd to see a therapist who is familiar with ND. And try and get her assessed. I know that’s easier said than done.

And op, this is going to sound harsh but you need to model calmness, and a realistic level of positivity and cheerfulness. She is watching you and how you are responding to this situation.

Do what you need to do to make yourself feel better: go out with friends, exercise, buy a dog, start a hobby that brings you joy. Let her see you living a happy busy life. Be a bit selfish and don’t let this negative interaction between the two of you spiral down and become the sole focus of your daily lives.

Make it clear that the lines of communication are open, try and have small moments of pleasantness between you, take her out for a coffee or go out to lunch, and make sure she knows she is loved (teens need to hear this often however vile they are being) and then step back from top down parenting and switch to running alongside her and cheering her on and advising (if asked) from the sidelines. No longer “you should do this” but “I’ll be interested to see what decision you make about this”.

Good luck op. This too shall pass!

Forgot to say op. You cannot move out! Sorry but she needs you there with her, however much she protests that she doesn’t.

Hang in there. It will get better 💐

This is where I disagree with the PP.
You can move out. (If you physically can, i.e. afford it.)

Can you rent a small flat? Ideally buy it (but who has the money...).
And start going there.
Maybe just for a day after she's been vile to you.
See how you feel. If it's better for you, prolonged periods.

This is all assuming that you can afford it. But see what you can physically afford.
If you could do a week a month in an Airbnb that would give you some relief.
If you can't afford it, is there anyone you can stay with? Friends or family?

@Whichsideoftherock brillant advice. Thank you. But I'm breaking. I cannot believe anyone can be so cruel.

I had similar with my child who is now out of other side. I eventually found a way of stopping him saying horrible things on and on by stating very calmly that I was not going to listen to anymore and I took myself away from him to do something else. Basically depriving him of the opportunity of lashing out at me.

I asked him once why he was so vile to me and why he hated me. He said he didn’t hate me but, found life as a 16 yo with all the pressures really difficult .He said he knew that I was the only person he could be like that with, because he knew I would always forgive him because I really love him.

It was an impossibly hard time because I felt hated and powerless to resolve it. I used to look at him and think he was all I had ever wanted…a child to love.

As I say, it took years of trial and error to stop it. I always did tell him, once he had calmed down that his behaviour was unacceptable and he would always apologise, and then be almost immediately horrible again.

it will get better and perhaps she knows you love her unconditionally too.

Go on strike OP. Just do the essentials and don't engage in conversation. Let her deal with life on her own for a bit and see what happens. If she asks what is going on it's the 'I love you but don't like you atm, so I'm protecting myself' and walk away. Until she learns that her behaviour doesn't get a response (reward), she won't change.

I think you're being too nice to her.

There'd be World War 3 in this house if my DD was acting like that.

I'd stop doing anything for her.

She ramps up hysterically if I get angry. Screaming and covering her ears. It's awful.
I haven't been perfect so maybe I've caused all this. Glad others have had it. But I think mine is worse. 🤪

It will end. Obviously you weren't like this in your own teenage years but many girls are. I was. I was appalling to my mother.
Perversely it means you have a v good relationship as she feels able to behave like this around you without losing your love. You're her trip switch - when she needs to let go it's all directed at you.
It doesn't make it pleasant, nor am I excusing the behaviour. But it does end.
My parents say things were much better when I was 16 and improved every year after that until I seemed to fully stabilise in my early 20s. I don't get that feeling of red mist anymore but I am slightly concerned that menopause might bring it back because I know it was partly hormonal.
If it helps at all, I have personally apologised to my mum many times.

I don't know if this helpful, but really try not to cry. My mum did this and it definitely made me worse. It made me even more angry.
You need to be her safe place. Be unmoved by her emotions; say you're here to talk when she's ready, but you will not be spoken to like and walk away. Be clear that you will not take abuse. Don't go for the "I do so much for you" line - it just doesn't work with teens as they don't see the work and also will just say "I didn't ask to be born" which although petulant and stupid is sort of true.
If you need to cry just escape to the toilet and lock the door.

Definitely definitely don't move out. She's testing your love. If you indicate it isn't there it could open a terrible can of worms that you would never recover from - and might damage her life changes.
Kindly, can I suggest that you seek some one to one therapy? If she's managing to hurt you with her childish jibes then it sounds like you need to find your core strength within yourself. Seriously, who cares what she thinks right now? This isn't your adult daughter's view - it's the whirling emotions of a hormonal teen.

@YukoandHiro
why does crying make it worse?
I can't believe anyone can be so hurtful.
I cannot believe any human could be so cruel. I do not understand.

It's not really childish. It's vicious. It is so nasty. If you heard it. You would shudder.

OP, You said "It's complicated as I've done some things that don't help"

What happened?

Take a massive step back from her and let her make her own mistakes. My dd is 15 today, 14 was a nightmare. The more I tried to instill structure and discipline, the harder my life was. Give her responsibility for her washing, cooking etc, treat her more like an adult and she'll come round. Since I backed right off and let dd make her own mistakes, there's been 90% less mistakes. Don't make life hard for yourself

Well for a start crying makes you look weak and she has achieved her aim of hurting you. Secondly you can’t act like an adult if you aren’t in control of your own emotions, anger or tears will solve nothing. Disengage, don’t try to get your DH to team tag with you, just walk away. The best way of dealing with toddler tantrums was to ignore them, the same is true for teenagers.

Is she punishing you? You mentioned you had done some things?

Op, can you give a clearer example because at the moment it sounds rather trivial eg she called you stupid and you cried, which seems an odd reaction. We’re obviously missing something here.

fwiw, I wouldn’t react be withdrawing affection, care etc. I would offer more not less.

Just ignore her and go into a different room from her

Don't bother to start a conversation with her

Just stay away from her

Wait till she turns into a nicer person

I can completely relate to your OP, my own daughter (DD1) was dreadful between the ages of 12-15. And when I say dreadful, I mean absolutely awful to the point that she was out of education for over a year and I had to call the police to help/find her at least once a week. But what I've come to realise since is that she was struggling with issues that she needed me to help with and change. She has since passed her a levels with brilliant results and started at a Russell Group uni this week, aiming for a career to help teenagers who find themselves in similar situations.
My advice would be to pick your battles and to also ensure that there are no underlying issues. My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD at 16 and that has helped us both to understand and cope with her difficulties.

It sounds like she is thoroughly thoroughly naughty in the sense of being nasty on purpose. What they get from that who knows, but you won't be the only one with a very difficult situation. Just keep telling yourself your life is valuable, and you need to ignore her bad behaviour and smile. Do things to show you are having a happy time yourself, don't cry and be miserable because she will be delighted you are reacting in that way. Good luck.

I get that she is being vicious op. Teens can be like Exocet missiles when it comes seeking out and pinpointing our weak spots!

Yes on the one hand they are hormonal teens without broad contextual experience of the world and can be daft as a brush, and their angry words deserve to be ignored, especially when they are stirring up trouble just to express frustration.

But sometimes they can be extremely perceptive and reflect back what they are experiencing from you and others and it can be instructive to pay attention to what they are saying. That’s not to say we excuse the nastiness - because that’s never acceptable- but sometimes we feel hurt because what they are saying has an element of truth in it. And if you can be objective and not take it too personally, it can be instructive, because it gives you clues as to what they need from you and how you can both work together to accommodate each other on new terms.

As a teen, your dd will be seeing you objectively as a real adult for the first time - as a person in your own right - with all of your good points and all of your flaws. And that’s scary for her because she knows you have weaknesses and failings (as we all do) - you are no longer the safe can-do-no-wrong parent that she relied on as a child - and she is in a way putting you to the test, that you are a safe place to launch from. And sometimes we are found wanting! So the best solution to this is working on ourselves and our own confidence and self esteem and reflecting that back to them.

If you go down the rabbit hole of letting their cage-rattling and insults get to you personally to the extent that it affects your mental health, and you project weakness, then you will perpetuate the negative cycle because they in turn will feel more unstable and insecure. What she needs from you now is calm, quiet confidence and fairness and an ability to listen without trying to solve things but with a view to allowing her to work through her own problems.

It’s very difficult but it’s helpful to start each day afresh with a blank slate. Don’t carry over simmering resentments from the night before. Try and focus on the positive and let her see you leading an interesting and active, positive life.

My dds were pretty awful (although not on your level) I took their phones away every time they were rude (I had a high tolerance so it had to be pretty bad) they got it back when they apologised and stopped the behaviour for two hours. It worked pretty well as I found too long a punishment gave them no incentive.