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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Compulsive lying

41 replies

frshnr · 23/02/2023 09:17

Our 12yo DD has always found friendships very difficult, she spent primary school flitting between groups and never really finding true friends. Secondary school coincided with us relocating so she had a fresh start. For the past 6 months she’s become much less bubbly and happy, and constantly tells lies that are so easy to find out the truth of. It’s like lying comes as second nature to her, I watch her say then without even blinking.

They were all small lies until last night I discovered she’s told her new group of secondary school friends that she’s got an older brother. She’s even had the audacity to suggest ‘he’ goes to the same school as them in an older year. I have no idea how she thought she’d sustain this lie. We confronted her about it and although she was clearly anxious she didn’t show much remorse and just shrugged a lot when we asked her about it. We also discovered that she’s lied about where she went on holiday lately, who she’s spent time with at the weekends and about things she owns.

We are a very open, loving and close family who spend a fair amount of quality time together, she has a younger sister that she’s close to and we have a very comfortable life.

Has anyone else had children tell lies of this magnitude? I’m concerned that there’s likely more lies that we don’t know about. I’m seriously considering contacting a therapist about it as surely this isn’t normal. Help!

OP posts:
DedicatedFollowerOfFashion84 · 23/02/2023 09:21

I think this will be one of those times where she’ll have to see the natural consequences of her actions play out… sooner or later her classmates will find out and it’s unlikely to be looked upon favourably. Seeing the impact of how their view of her changes may be enough to motivate her into being more truthful.
with regards to her home life… she’s old enough to have a frank conversation about the importance of telling the truth, use the conversation to try and identify any underlying esteem issues or anxieties around why she doesn’t feel her real life is “good” enough and feels compelled to fabricate things.

BestZebbie · 23/02/2023 09:22

Is she masking (ineptly)? If she doesn’t know what she is supposed to say to make friends, maybe she is either trying to say what she thinks they want to hear, or has at least found that people pay attention and listen to her when she lies - which feels better than being ignored.
I’m not sure it is automatically a cause for concern that she might be doing it maliciously or not understand it is a fantasy.

fUNNYfACE36 · 23/02/2023 09:28

She's just trying to make herself more interesting. I'd leave it alone

Original poster
frshnr · 23/02/2023 09:29

BestZebbie · 23/02/2023 09:22

Is she masking (ineptly)? If she doesn’t know what she is supposed to say to make friends, maybe she is either trying to say what she thinks they want to hear, or has at least found that people pay attention and listen to her when she lies - which feels better than being ignored.
I’m not sure it is automatically a cause for concern that she might be doing it maliciously or not understand it is a fantasy.

I think this is exactly it, a lot of her fabrications are mirrors of her friends experiences (they all have older brothers… I’m sure this lie has foundations in them all bonding over that and her feeling left out for example). We had a very frank discussion with her last night but even then I could see her telling small fibs to lessen the seriousness of what we’d discovered. She’s clearly a very anxious girl with low self esteem, I just wish I’d noticed how much this was effecting her sooner.

OP posts:
Lettylee83 · 23/02/2023 09:34

I think I’d worry about her. I think it’d be cruel to let her get found out naturally - she’d live with a lot of shame and embarrassment and I don’t think shame and embarrassment are what she needs here!

She’s clearly struggling. Do you talk much as a family? Are you able to ask her how the lies make her feel when she’s telling them? (Powerful, got attention, whatever it is.)

Are you also able to help her get some therapy? It sounds like she isn’t in a good place.

For what it’s worth, my parents also moved just before secondary school and I went to a new school only knowing a handful of people. I made up all sorts of things like: I have a middle name (random one), I went to whatever place on holiday, and one that I had a boyfriend. I also used to make up friends that didn’t exist. I was deeply anxious and insecure and terribly unhappy. My parents (who are lovely) had no idea what to do, so largely ignored it and sometimes shamed me for it. I wish I’d seen a therapist, but didn’t even know that would have been a possibility (it probably wouldn’t in the 90s where I grew up).

I also used to get the “you used to be so happy and bubbly, what happened to you?” Question, that wasn’t a real question.

I am fine now as an adult (and have had therapy!), but my teenage years were so unhappy and so lonely.

Original poster
frshnr · 23/02/2023 09:44

Thank you for sharing your experiences, this is so helpful. I’ve contacted a few therapists for initial consultations so see what’s available.

We talk a lot as a family, but after last night I can see that she’s not willing/able for us to be the people she talks to about this. I think this is what I’m finding difficult as I’ve always seen us as very close. That’s my issue though, not hers so I’m trying to put that to one side for now.

I am so worried about isolating herself, right now it seems she’s getting a buzz from ‘fitting in’ thanks to the lies but I know this must be causing her so much stress and anxiety, and in the long run she’ll end up losing friends over it.

OP posts:
Original poster
frshnr · 23/02/2023 09:45

Lettylee83 · 23/02/2023 09:34

I think I’d worry about her. I think it’d be cruel to let her get found out naturally - she’d live with a lot of shame and embarrassment and I don’t think shame and embarrassment are what she needs here!

She’s clearly struggling. Do you talk much as a family? Are you able to ask her how the lies make her feel when she’s telling them? (Powerful, got attention, whatever it is.)

Are you also able to help her get some therapy? It sounds like she isn’t in a good place.

For what it’s worth, my parents also moved just before secondary school and I went to a new school only knowing a handful of people. I made up all sorts of things like: I have a middle name (random one), I went to whatever place on holiday, and one that I had a boyfriend. I also used to make up friends that didn’t exist. I was deeply anxious and insecure and terribly unhappy. My parents (who are lovely) had no idea what to do, so largely ignored it and sometimes shamed me for it. I wish I’d seen a therapist, but didn’t even know that would have been a possibility (it probably wouldn’t in the 90s where I grew up).

I also used to get the “you used to be so happy and bubbly, what happened to you?” Question, that wasn’t a real question.

I am fine now as an adult (and have had therapy!), but my teenage years were so unhappy and so lonely.

Above for you!

OP posts:
Mindthegapagain778 · 23/02/2023 10:26

Lying is very common in adolescence either to cover up or minimise rule-breaking or to boost self confidence like your teen is doing op.

I am not an expert but according to my vast library on teen issues (don’t ask!) constant lying to peers can be a bit of a red flag because in some cases it can be a sign of certain mh disorders In teens eg depression. So your instincts are spot on op and I would definitely pay closer attention to her and definitely help her see a licensed psychologist who specialises in teen issues.

A lot of the time though they just need reassurance that they are “normal” and are “good enough” and are experiencing similar worries and fears as the rest of humanity, but occasionally they may need more help.

For example, if the psychologist diagnoses anxiety or depression then that, plus friendship issues, could in some instances indicate autism. (Just an example.) And as a PP has indicated, masking and trying to copy others is classic behaviour for girls with asd, which is often diagnosed later in girls precisely because they mask. Or she may just need help managing anxiety.

I know it’s frustrating and you feel upset on her behalf because you feel she has ruined the opportunity to make a new start. Also it feels fundamentally wrong of her to lie so blatantly. But she needs sympathy and support not confrontation. By all means tell her she is a complete wombat for lying because the truth will always come out eventually and that will alienate others even more.

But if she has asd she may not be able to fully appreciate how being lied to feels from some else’s perspective. So what appears to be lack of conscience could be total lack of comprehension. So explain that and how it impacts on trust. It may help to draw a circle of trust visually as you would for a younger child (imagine people holding hands and standing in a circle) then each lie is represented by rubbing out a bit of the circle, leaving a big gap.

Obviously check with school that she is not being bullied and talk to her teachers about her friendships and the way she interacts with others. How is her academic work? She obviously needs loads of reassurance that she is as good as anyone else, that no one is perfect, that we all make mistakes, and that it’s ok to show some of our imperfections to people we trust. How other people find it endearing when we are honest about our difficulties.

Explain that, as adults, we become mature because we are more practiced at things but also by being accepting of, and reconciled to, the fact that we will feel uncertain and inadequate at times and that’s ok.

Also if you can get her involved in a hobby outside of school to build her self esteem that would be good. Something related to an activity she is naturally good at. Having separate friends outside of school can be a game changer for a teen too.

If she is sporty and independent then the DoE awards might be good for her but anything from horse-riding to arts and crafts will build her self-confidence and boost her sense of identity .

Lettylee83 · 23/02/2023 10:33

Mindthegapagain778 · 23/02/2023 10:26

Lying is very common in adolescence either to cover up or minimise rule-breaking or to boost self confidence like your teen is doing op.

I am not an expert but according to my vast library on teen issues (don’t ask!) constant lying to peers can be a bit of a red flag because in some cases it can be a sign of certain mh disorders In teens eg depression. So your instincts are spot on op and I would definitely pay closer attention to her and definitely help her see a licensed psychologist who specialises in teen issues.

A lot of the time though they just need reassurance that they are “normal” and are “good enough” and are experiencing similar worries and fears as the rest of humanity, but occasionally they may need more help.

For example, if the psychologist diagnoses anxiety or depression then that, plus friendship issues, could in some instances indicate autism. (Just an example.) And as a PP has indicated, masking and trying to copy others is classic behaviour for girls with asd, which is often diagnosed later in girls precisely because they mask. Or she may just need help managing anxiety.

I know it’s frustrating and you feel upset on her behalf because you feel she has ruined the opportunity to make a new start. Also it feels fundamentally wrong of her to lie so blatantly. But she needs sympathy and support not confrontation. By all means tell her she is a complete wombat for lying because the truth will always come out eventually and that will alienate others even more.

But if she has asd she may not be able to fully appreciate how being lied to feels from some else’s perspective. So what appears to be lack of conscience could be total lack of comprehension. So explain that and how it impacts on trust. It may help to draw a circle of trust visually as you would for a younger child (imagine people holding hands and standing in a circle) then each lie is represented by rubbing out a bit of the circle, leaving a big gap.

Obviously check with school that she is not being bullied and talk to her teachers about her friendships and the way she interacts with others. How is her academic work? She obviously needs loads of reassurance that she is as good as anyone else, that no one is perfect, that we all make mistakes, and that it’s ok to show some of our imperfections to people we trust. How other people find it endearing when we are honest about our difficulties.

Explain that, as adults, we become mature because we are more practiced at things but also by being accepting of, and reconciled to, the fact that we will feel uncertain and inadequate at times and that’s ok.

Also if you can get her involved in a hobby outside of school to build her self esteem that would be good. Something related to an activity she is naturally good at. Having separate friends outside of school can be a game changer for a teen too.

If she is sporty and independent then the DoE awards might be good for her but anything from horse-riding to arts and crafts will build her self-confidence and boost her sense of identity .

This is great advice!!

Mindthegapagain778 · 23/02/2023 10:33

Sorry I have just basically repeated what Lettylee83 said! Should have rtft!

Mindthegapagain778 · 23/02/2023 10:34

X posts Lettylee83! 😃

Lettylee83 · 23/02/2023 10:34

Mindthegapagain778 · 23/02/2023 10:33

Sorry I have just basically repeated what Lettylee83 said! Should have rtft!

Ha I read yours and thought: this sounds great! Do that!

Mindthegapagain778 · 23/02/2023 10:36

Lettylee83 · 23/02/2023 10:34

Ha I read yours and thought: this sounds great! Do that!

Show quote history

🤣🤣

Original poster
frshnr · 23/02/2023 10:39

Amazing advice - thank you! She’s very academic (almost to her detriment, nothing is ever good enough - eg - if she’s top 10 at something then she should have been top 5, then she attains top 5 and is distraught she’s not number one etc) and has a number of interests outside of school including one she is very good at that she sees as a carer option in the future. Thankfully she has a good group of friends here who she’s seems her most comfortable with.

thank you so much for these practical tips, while I wait to hear back from the professionals I’ve contacted I’ll put these in to action!

OP posts:
Original poster
frshnr · 23/02/2023 10:40

Mindthegapagain778 · 23/02/2023 10:26

Lying is very common in adolescence either to cover up or minimise rule-breaking or to boost self confidence like your teen is doing op.

I am not an expert but according to my vast library on teen issues (don’t ask!) constant lying to peers can be a bit of a red flag because in some cases it can be a sign of certain mh disorders In teens eg depression. So your instincts are spot on op and I would definitely pay closer attention to her and definitely help her see a licensed psychologist who specialises in teen issues.

A lot of the time though they just need reassurance that they are “normal” and are “good enough” and are experiencing similar worries and fears as the rest of humanity, but occasionally they may need more help.

For example, if the psychologist diagnoses anxiety or depression then that, plus friendship issues, could in some instances indicate autism. (Just an example.) And as a PP has indicated, masking and trying to copy others is classic behaviour for girls with asd, which is often diagnosed later in girls precisely because they mask. Or she may just need help managing anxiety.

I know it’s frustrating and you feel upset on her behalf because you feel she has ruined the opportunity to make a new start. Also it feels fundamentally wrong of her to lie so blatantly. But she needs sympathy and support not confrontation. By all means tell her she is a complete wombat for lying because the truth will always come out eventually and that will alienate others even more.

But if she has asd she may not be able to fully appreciate how being lied to feels from some else’s perspective. So what appears to be lack of conscience could be total lack of comprehension. So explain that and how it impacts on trust. It may help to draw a circle of trust visually as you would for a younger child (imagine people holding hands and standing in a circle) then each lie is represented by rubbing out a bit of the circle, leaving a big gap.

Obviously check with school that she is not being bullied and talk to her teachers about her friendships and the way she interacts with others. How is her academic work? She obviously needs loads of reassurance that she is as good as anyone else, that no one is perfect, that we all make mistakes, and that it’s ok to show some of our imperfections to people we trust. How other people find it endearing when we are honest about our difficulties.

Explain that, as adults, we become mature because we are more practiced at things but also by being accepting of, and reconciled to, the fact that we will feel uncertain and inadequate at times and that’s ok.

Also if you can get her involved in a hobby outside of school to build her self esteem that would be good. Something related to an activity she is naturally good at. Having separate friends outside of school can be a game changer for a teen too.

If she is sporty and independent then the DoE awards might be good for her but anything from horse-riding to arts and crafts will build her self-confidence and boost her sense of identity .

Amazing advice - thank you! She’s very academic (almost to her detriment, nothing is ever good enough - eg - if she’s top 10 at something then she should have been top 5, then she attains top 5 and is distraught she’s not number one etc) and has a number of interests outside of school including one she is very good at that she sees as a carer option in the future. Thankfully she has a good group of friends here who she’s seems her most comfortable with.

thank you so much for these practical tips, while I wait to hear back from the professionals I’ve contacted I’ll put these in to action!

OP posts:
Gwen82 · 23/02/2023 10:40

I’m concerned that there’s likely more lies that we don’t know about.

I would be much more concerned with how deeply unhappy my child appears to be

Gwen82 · 23/02/2023 10:40

How is she at home oP?

Gwen82 · 23/02/2023 10:41

I would also be asking to have a meeting with the school and pastoral care

Original poster
frshnr · 23/02/2023 10:43

Gwen82 · 23/02/2023 10:40

How is she at home oP?

She is a little quieter than usual but nothing that on its own would have raised concern.

OP posts:
Gwen82 · 23/02/2023 10:57

if you do talk to the school and I hope you do

the crux of the meeting shouldn’t be about the lying. This is a symptom

it should be about how very unhappy she is

Gwen82 · 23/02/2023 11:00

We confronted her about it and although she was clearly anxious she didn’t show much remorse and just shrugged a lot when we asked her about it.

You and I parent very differently OP

you and her father “confronted” her.
you saw her anxious but wanted to see “remorse”

My approach would have been a chat with her about it and find out why and go from there. I would be empathetic and sure as hell no confrontation or seeking remorse

i think family therapy would be a good idea

Original poster
frshnr · 23/02/2023 11:04

Gwen82 · 23/02/2023 11:00

We confronted her about it and although she was clearly anxious she didn’t show much remorse and just shrugged a lot when we asked her about it.

You and I parent very differently OP

you and her father “confronted” her.
you saw her anxious but wanted to see “remorse”

My approach would have been a chat with her about it and find out why and go from there. I would be empathetic and sure as hell no confrontation or seeking remorse

i think family therapy would be a good idea

I didn’t want to see remorse, but I was surprised when I didn’t see it. Anxiety and remorse aren’t not mutually exclusive feelings.

What I didn’t include in the post (because I assumed most parents who love their children would do the same) was that we sat and cuddled together while we talked, we held hands and spoke about how much we love her and want to support her. How all we want for her is happiness and for her to feel content. You seem to think I sat her down, shone a light in her eyes and demanded answers which is certainly not the case.

OP posts:
IDontWantToBeAPie · 23/02/2023 11:16

Sounds like she's being bullied to me. And has made up a big scary brother to protect her or so people are afraid to pick on her.

Gwen82 · 23/02/2023 11:17

Well yes op

because you said you “confronted” her. That she was anxious. And that you wanted remorse
Oh and She’s even had the audacity

OP she’s 12. Not even a teenager as per your Op. a child. A very unhappy child who seems quite desperate to me

DarkChocHolic · 23/02/2023 11:28

OP,
I have experience of this as my DD did/does similar.
She texted me from school during lunch saying she started periods.
I went to the shops and bought her chocolates, card and a hot water bottle before she came from school that afternoon.
That night, I realised she had lied to me!
We have also had fake social media profiles created for boyfriends etc.
She has also had friendship issues in primary and the start of secondary was horrendous for her.
In our case it is low self esteem and anxiety/depression which we are addressing via counselling.

I presume your daughter is in Y7? A lot of friendship dramas exist at this age and this combined with being at secondary causes a lot of anxiety for them.
I admit we didn't handle it well at all and now at 15 things got to a point where we need external help.
I don't know if she talks about why she needs to lie in therapy but I am hoping talking it with someone makes her think and work our things for herself.
We also know we need to raise self esteem. She does have hobbies outside and is doing decently at school.

I would seek any help you can now.
There comes a point when older teens don't want you to contact form tutor or school for anything mental health related (atleast my DD hates it when I email school)
Good luck and hope this passes.
Some of the advice on this thread has been fab so don't be disheartened by the odd smirk!