What would you do with DD14 - wits end here

[Bibbling]

I’m at a loss. These problems are relatively small but it’s all adding up: DD is incredibly rude and dismissive which I’ve broadly made my peace with. She is unhelpful around the house, and does very little or no homework but is smart enough so the grades are so so. Just one after school activity which again I’ve made my peace with.

Post parent teacher meeting we all agreed that she would do an hour of school work Monday to Wednesday. The rest of the time she is free to be on her phone (it’s taken at bedtime)

She isn’t doing the school work and lied about submitting something last night. Today I told her she needed to do it before her activity and she’s been so obnoxious she has told me that I am a ‘disgusting liar’

Ive taken the phone and shes now saying she won’t go to tennis until she gets it back. Tennis is held over us as she knows we are eager for her to do some exercise . She does however enjoy it.

She then proceeded to take her dinner to the couch - there is no eating meals on the couch - and she says that I can’t make her stop.

I mean what would you do with this. She’s now doing the work but only after an almighty showdown and it’s exhausting and destructive

But what do you do, @Frenchfancy? Grab the plate off her?

And don't let her hold tennis over you. You need to find something she really loves (other than her phone) then you are in the stronger position.

With DD2 it was ponies with DD3 it is basketball. If she is rude to me she knows she will miss the match and have to explain to her coach and teammates why. She has never missed a match.

The phone means everything and more to kids these days.

If she talks to you like dirt you take the phone.

If she looks at you like dirt you take the phone.

You tell her she will get the phone back when you have seen an improvement in her behaviour.

Also add a time limit to the phone.

3 hours per day. Used from 8am to 9pm.

don’t let her hold the tennis over you if she wants to quit - fine let her!!

Stand your ground with this one

meant to add music app can be discounted from the time limit!

As can your phone number

My children are younger but even I’m shocked at the little homework and no housework! She’s having an easy life! You need to impose pocket money, phone time with more homework and some housework. She doesn’t do it she doesn’t get any money/phone.

And OP, you don't have to 'make peace' with the fact she is 'incredibly rude and dismissive' to you. Call her out on it EVERY TIME.
Yes, it is exhausting, but it's your job to keep moulding the vile teen into a palatable human, like you moulded your tricky toddler into someone who used cutlery and didn't run away in supermarkets.
You've got this!

No not you at all. I literally do not know any parents who take their 14 year olds phone. I appreciate its a small sample size of about 30 but its only on Mumsnet I hear of it.
I know a few people who take the phone at night and sometimes we do when my 15yo is so addicted he has bags under his eyes. Trust and talking to teens works until it comes to his phone.

I don’t think you are doing a terrible job OP .. the homework got done and you might have ended up feeling like a damp rag afterwards - but I think sometimes that’s just part of parenting a teenager .

I’ve got two - one that spends most of his time in his room on phone and laptop but does his homework - I worry about him being lonely / one that likes to be out and does the bear minimum .. he is at the moment likely to underachieve .

I feel like I’m a total nag .. both of my two have got some great points but I nag about everything else and my fingers are crossed that they’ll get there in the end .

I don’t have any nuggets of great advice but I just wanted to say you aren’t on your own .. very few parents if theyre honest have angelic teenagers and are finding the whole thing a walk in the park

I don't grab the plate off her, she wouldn't even try because she knows the rules.

But I would if I had to. The trick is not to let the rules get broken in the first place.

As long as rules are reasonable and they apply to everyone then they work. The difficult bit is deciding which rules you want.

But forcing arbitrary rules that only one person has to abide by (1 hour homework for example - what if all the work is done in 20 minutes? What if mum, dad or brother spend that hour on their phones) causes problems.

So you have linked the deterioration with phone use

but then you say absolutely no limits aside from 3 hours homework a week

And how does she fare with the 9.30 handover?

Make sure she knows that the house rules apply to everyone. My kids know that I can't sit down to relax and look at my phone until all my house chores and any left over paperwork from the day is done. I wrote out a list of the chores I expect everyone to do alongside the things I do in the house and they saw that they are expected to do a tiny fraction of what I do. So chores first, homework next then they are free to do what they like. They know that their phones etc are privileges that can be removed any time I like. The contracts are in my name and I can cancel them.

The eating on the couch thing is a pain but I'd maybe pick my battles with that one because it's a clear power struggle. I'd probably shrug and say "that's fine but any spillages and you'll need to pay for it to be cleaned or I can pay for it but cancel your phone contract until you've paid it off.

It's a frustrating time for teens who are trying to exert some control over their lives. So really pick your battles and then try to let natural consequences happen.

This is difficult. Personally I would cut down the house rules to an absolute bare essential minimum - e.g eating a meal on the couch isn't exactly worth falling out over - maybe you need to relax that rule. She is doing it because she knows it will pull your chain - if the chain is taken away she has nothing to pull.

She is fighting for control, so ..... give her some! Ask her what things about home life make her irritated, and ask yourself if some of these things really are essential. Negotiate. If she hears that you are listening to her and her thoughts are valued, this could go a long way to establishing that you do understand she is growing up and needing a greater say in how she runs her life.

But there also need to be some "bottom line" rules that are non-negotiable. They will be different for each family.

Examine the things that you fall out over and see what the triggers are and how it might be possible to change things a bit.

The more she sees you as trying to control her opinions, thoughts and actions, the more she will fight against you and make your lives miserable.

I had some very strict ground rules: no-one is unkind to another family member, no-one shouts or swears at anyone. But outside of these I was pretty flexible with my DDs when they were teens. If they fancied eating on the sofa in front of the TV, then fine - sometimes I fancy doing that! - although I might say "It would be great to have you at the table; I would love to hear what you have been doing." But outside of that I gave them choice as far as possible.

It is about adapting to the idea that this is a young adult in the making, and asking what your rules for another adult might be - clearly that is not the total picture, but asking that sometimes allows for a bit of leeway.

Being a bit more flexible does not weaken your position with her; rather it strengthens the relationship because you are listening to her and she will value that.

Homework - well, I used to say to them that I fully understood this could be burdensome - and that some of is is pretty crap in terms of educational value - but that I was aware they knew why they were doing it for their own future, and that I trusted them to do what was needed..... that they were not doing it for me, but for themselves. Taking it out of a context of creating yet another opportunity for conflict can be a valuable move.

And as the teenage years progressed I used to say: "Get pregnant if you must, but never get in a car with someone who is high on drugs or alcohol!" They knew there was an element of tongue in cheek about it and smiled, but they also knew it was an expression of love and had a very important underlying message.

Maybe you need to renegotiate the rules in light of your DD's changing into a young adult. I am sure she does not really want to be at loggerheads with you all the time, so give her the chance not to be by respecting that she is getting older now and having more choices is a reasonable move.

Rules are important so she has boundaries and knows right from wrong; but rules that are not essential just present opportunities for conflict.

I had a friend whose OH was yelling at his teenage son to take his beanie off in the house - why, just why, does that really matter? It is just a focus of conflict which he was handing to his son on a plate. It was a platform for the son to assert his independence. Take that away and you take away the conflict.

Pick your battles! Hand back come choice! And tell them you trust them to make thoughtful decisions - so that with more choice comes more personal responsibility. Blind obedience is not appropriate at this age.

I don’t “take” my teen ds phone.

but… no phone at the dinner table. No phone every single weekday from getting back from school (he gets back after sport 4x a week so 6.30pm) until showered, sorted stuff out for tomorrow and got homework stuff set up.
then phone before dinner
dinner… we eat around 8
then afterwards he has his phone whilst doing homework but he definitely does the homework and at least an hour a night.
Phone handed over at 10.

Weekends… I will say “ok put your phone down and give it a rest if I clock too much” but lion’s part of sat and Sunday is sport anyway.

Teenage years are soo hard, but just stick at it. Make sure she knows you’re on her side no matter what. But that there are rules and boundaries.
Maybe try the actions have consequences route, but in a positive way. So if you could encourage her to help you in some way i matter how small , lay the table, help dinner, homework without a fuss…… you’ll reward her in some little way….

First up, 14 year olds can be real little shits. It's a horrible age. You have my sympathies. But, take heart, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I was a big advocate of tough love (I have boys). In that situation, I would have kept hold of her phone and taken her dinner from her. She eats where you say she eats. And I would have said if she chooses to do no exercise, she'll get fat. My oldest boy was a gobby wee shit and had an answer for everything. I'm happy to report he's grown into a lovely young man with impeccable manners (all down to me, of course..🤣🤣). Hang in there!

i would tolerate zero of her bullshit. The phone wouldn’t just be confiscated it would be completely gone until she sorted herself out. Plus I wouldn’t give a shiny one about tennis. Pull the lessons entirely.

Get rid of the phone until the sulky madam learns to behave properly.

OP just take her phone and pocket money away. Then tell her if she doesn't go to tennis that's cancelled, as she's old enough now to take a bit of responsibility for her own health and fitness. And that if she doesn't do her homework she will a) fail everything (which will happen at some point) which is what you're trying to protect her from, and b) never get her phone back.

I'd say the worse part of it is her having no interests outside of a phone, but I get that it's a hard age and a hard scenario to try to get a lot of kids this age to engage in other things.

Then, c) give her more chores and say you're prepared to rethink the chores if shes less rude and chooses to go to tennis and do her homework.

I have young DD’s so can only come at it from remembering myself as a 14yo girl - I was a twat. I think it’s a hard age, hormones play a big part & getting to the age where you feel you’re old enough to not respect your parents rules but really still being a kid. It’s difficult but you need to stay firm but the constant battles are exhausting.

The phone personally I would cut down on, I don’t think that’ll be helping behaviour. Tennis - I’d say well I’m dropping you off you can sit outside for an hour or go in. But you’re being dropped off.

Remind her you love her very much & as much as she might feel like she hates you and the rules right now everything you do comes from a place of love. It is a phase and she will grow out of it! I love my mum now but she 14-16 I put her through some crap.

At age 14, it is interesting that you feel it's your job to organise her study/homework time. Because at that age, she could be in charge of that herself and if she doesn't hand in homework she will get consequences of that from her school.

She is growing up and needs autonomy and choices about some things in her life now. Perhaps she is rebelling because she feels too managed.

I'd divide these issues into things that are your department to decide, and things that are hers.

So, you don't want people eating on your sofa, that's completely in your department, it's your house and your sofa - so this is worth tackling.

Tennis - if she felt she was doing tennis because she enjoys it and wants to, rather than because she knows you want her to, she couldn't use missing it as a threat. Could it be turned the other way round, with you saying if you don't go to tennis, I won't be paying for it anymore and therefore you won't have a chance to go to tennis, it's up to you.

Perhaps a conversation with her, where you say to her that I'm aware that you are now growing up and want to make more of your own choices about things. So I've thought about it, and realised that perhaps now that you're 14 and at secondary school, you need to be in charge of organising your own work. And you need to be the one that decides if you want to do well and go to uni and have a great job, or if you're not really bothered. We can't make you succeed, that needs to come from you, so now I suggest that you organise your own homework. If you don't do it presumably you realise it will only have an effect on you and your life and choices. How would you feel if we now just leave that up to you? Would that work better?
As far as tennis is concerned, if you would like to carry on with your lessons, that's fine and we will carry on paying for them. If you miss tennis, in order to upset us that's not going to work, it's only going to make us stop paying for it. Again your choice. Do you want to carry on with the lessons?

As far as eating on the sofa, we don't want anyone doing that, and that is our decision. Obviously I'm not going to manhandle you off the sofa if you do it, but I will be handing out consequences if you choose to ignore that boundary.

Perhaps if she feels that you have confidence in her to make good decisions? I don't know OP, everyone is different, and this may all sound ridiculous to you, but I think we do need to adjust our approaches as dcs get older.

@Bibbling this ‘DD is incredibly rude and dismissive which I’ve broadly made my peace with.’ is your fatal error. She is pushing your boundaries with rude behaviour and you have just capitulated. You need to be the parent. She does not make the rules in your house. Give her a warning - you are sick of the attitude and cheek, she has a seven day period to wise up during which time you’ll be pointing out to her every bit of behaviour that will result in a punishment. You don’t get in to a discussion about why it’s happening, you just tell her this is the rule here and if you break it this will happen. You have to be emotionless about it. Then after the seven days you start taking her phone, cancelling her club, not allowing her to go out until she gets the message. If she wants to eat on the couch she gets no dinner. You cannot allow yourself to be walked over by a 14 year old. Are you alone? If not does her father/your partner have any input?

I would take the phone when she gets home from school.

She wouldn't get it back until all homework is done.

No phone until after homework is satisfactorily completed.
No phone at the dinner table.
No phone after 8 pm

If she is rude or obnoxious I'd do a natural punishment.

Eating on the sofa.
Take the food away until she sits properly ar the table and make her clean up any mess made.

I think you need to really think about what your rules are and stick firm to them. Other stuff I would let slide. You can't fight about everything.

Yes, this says much better what I was clumsily trying to say!