DD and DH don't get along

[BrightRedLipstick]

Looking for some advice as am fed up of the mood in the house.
Not sure if this a post for the teenagers or relationship board
DD is 15 and a typical moody teenager.
She also has some issues with body image due to being overweight and is seeking counselling.
It's also GCSE year so she is extra stressed and grumpy. We hardly get a word out of her most days and is forever holed up in her room except for meals.
I find her behaviour hard but try and not take it personally hoping this is a phase.
She is normally not rude but her body language can be rude and this causes a lot of tension between DH and her.
She doesn't do a single chore but seems to manage her own washing and her messy room.
We are a boring family too.
Kids have clubs most days including weekends and school holidays are the only times we manage some things as a family which are increasingly becoming harder as DD doesn't want to join.

Things are increasingly getting difficult between DD and DH and I am caught in the middle.
She isn't as rude to me as she is to him but then my expectations of her are low which annoys DH.
She hardly talks in the car anymore and I let it slide as maybe she is tired or doesn't feel like it.
Today, DH was furious she wouldn't respond to conversation when giving her a lift back.
To be fair to her, he is very out of touch with the kids and is struggling with the teen phase. He doesn't make an effort to try and connect with her.
And to be fair to him, she isn't easy either. She has no hobbies or interests over which they can bond, refuses most invitations when asked out by us and generally wants to stay in her room alone.

I feel sorry for everyone and also helpless.
But I guess DH being an adult needs to find a way to get through and cannot lumber it on me?
Just fed up. Weekends are so awful:-(

There needs to be some give and take- they both have a bit of work to do. Mum of 2 teen boys here and a pre-teen - all very different.

DD needs to budge a bit- agree to chat a little, or if that's hard listen to a podcast together or share music - i have done this loads, it can lead to great chat. Also o one chore (she can choose- chop veg/ hoover a bit/ bring washing down) every other day, and be careful of her facial expressions.

DH needs to lighten up a bit and agree to the above and stop making demands to fit in with family TV/ trips. Perhaps he can ask her to write down any shows/ places she fancies when she's thought of them. My teens suggest shows or a film on Netflix and we watch together- not as frequently as we once did, but still do it. We also all suggest a cafe/ restaurant/ new type of food we've heard about and try it now and again.

Cooking- could they try a recipe together. My 2 eldest cook with their dad/ shop for ingredients all the time (exH so has his own place) as he's a real foodie. They all do a sport together too- but I understand that may not be possible.

Is it counselling for her weight?

posted too soon - same applies to 'staying out of the way when she has friends over' well yes of course, that's completely normal, not the sign of a 'good dad.' It would be weird for a grown man to hang around 15 year old girls. Seriously the more you say the more it sounds like your DH is trying to relate to her as if she's still a child and she (obviously) isn't reacting well to that. Perhaps she could be reacting better but she could also be reacting a lot worse. Instead of shouting and being rude to him she's just trying to avoid him, because she is only 15 and doesn't have the experience, vocabulary or emotional maturity to do otherwise - at the end of the day you are the adults so it's on you to do most of the heavy lifting and decide how you want to reframe your relationships going forward, because you will never 'go back' to how it was.

Things he expects are for her to respond to questions when asked (she says I hate the How's school question)

All kids hate this question. What’s she going to answer? ‘Well double French was fascinating’

l once heard this question described as an ego boost for parents

My 15 year old has been downstairs twice today, raided the fridge and grabbed a drink, that's it.

He's out with friends later, he doesn't always want to talk, he doesn't want "family time" he wants to chill in his room, rest and chat to his friends.

If he's rude he gets told to apologise. But I could happily sit in a car with zero chat for an hour then other days he will happily talk, it's at his pace and with respect.

All she wants is you too respect her space, allow her to grow and set some boundaries.

Forced chat in a car-sounds awful!

Why is his wanting to chat more important than her not wanting to?

"Everything OK?" "yes thanks" is surely enough?

She can say more if she wants to!

She doesn’t need counselling ffs, she needs to lose weight, healthy diet and exercise!

My DD and DH clash as there are very similar personality wise - hot headed and stubborn. Im the complete opposite and generally get on very well with DD.

This is because I let a lot of things slide and know when she gets angry and says some not nice things its because she is upset/embarrased and deals with that by getting qngry and defensive - just like DH does.

He gets annoyed at me for not having high enough 'standards' but generally I think he is out of touch with teenagers and would prefer a more dictatoral approach (he's in charge and everyone does as he says) but this doesn't work with either me or our teens.

They are both lovely people most of the time but clash a lot with each other. Our other teen is more laid back like me and doesnt clash with DH.

I manage DD the same way as I manage DH and when I point this out to him he gets it a bit but cant change the way he is and as I tell him - neither can she.

Just want to give you some solidarity as I know how tough it can be. My motto is - 'is this a hill I want to die on?' and if its not, I just ignore whats going on/give DD space/stop badgering her and it normally turns out ok in the end. But DD knows that the things I DO find important are non-negiotible and will behave/attend/join in appropriately - generally because there arent many of them.

Your DH needs to give her a break and let her be her without breathing down her neck.

Good luck

I don't think it's fair to ask DC's to do their chores when there's 15 weeks before GCSE's. I'd be happy she's studying, has friends and is keeping herself and her room clean and tidy. I hardly see my DC's, 14 and 17, between homework, revision, SnapChat and Face-Timing friends our house is very much a 'hotel', but isn't that right for this age group? By your own admission you're a 'boring family', we're not, yet we find ourselves having to thinking up exciting things to do to get the kids to come out and engage with us. At the moment they're not interested in walking the dog or visiting GPs, but they will be again one day.

I think it's right for DH to continue to support her by giving her lifts, but don't ask questions about her day. Ask her if she wants to stop for McD's on the way home. Teenagers are tricky, girls especially (have you considered she may be struggling with PMS?), and GCSE's stress kids out unbelievably. I do believe she should be saying "thank you" after lifts, dinner. A PP was right when suggesting DH should be supporting you in your way of dealing with her until the end of June when the pressure of GCSE's has passed.

I get that and in the short term I agree, but if refuses to interact ever, that’s not normal. She should understand that it’s hurtful.
also, she can’t still expect favours such as lifts if she isn’t speaking to people at all.

I don't think OP's posts give the impression that her DD isn't speaking to people at all?

How do you know whether she needs counselling or not? Maybe she's miserable for more reasons than her weight and that's why she’s so short with everyone.

Things he expects are for her to respond to questions when asked (she says I hate the How's school question)

Your dh sounds great in that he does a lot of things practically for her, but if the depth of their relationship or conversations doesn't go beyond "hows school?" your dh needs to be trying harder to work out how he can engage with his teenage daughter.

ds responds best to opening conversations with things like - I was listening to the news this morning and it was talking about the teacher strikes, is there much being said about it in school? What do you think about them striking? etc. and then listen to her answers and develop the conversation from there with the emphasis on helping her understand the topic with facts, listening to and developing her own thoughts and opinions on the topic from her own experience of school/teachers, rather than telling her his.

I strongly recommend the book Untangled by Lisa Damour to you and your DH. I found that it gave a really helpful, balanced perspective on raising teenage girls.

Nah, chores take no time and will encourage good habits in so much as certain tasks always need doing no matter what.

The "how's school" question is also a difficult one if you hate school. The answer will always be the same: crap.

I think she sounds mostly like a fairly typical teenager.

My three "children" are now all in their twenties so we are now out the other end of this phase. I never met a parent who found the teenage years easy and at ages 14 - 15 they are really right in the thick of it. I found mine beginning to become human beings again from 16 onwards, but 14 and 15 were hard. Basically, at that age they just didn't think parents were cool pets to have.

If she wants to be quiet in the car then leave her be. My only stipulation would be that she at least acknowledges and thanks whoever has given her a lift, but I wouldn't otherwise expect inane chatter if she doesn't want to.

As far as going out with the family is concerned, many 15 year olds wouldn't be keen on this so unless it is a particularly important occasion then I wouldn't insist. If you are just going for a day out then simply offer her the opportunity to join you if she wishes but not take offence if she declines. The decision is hers. The only thing I would expect is a polite "yes please" or "no thank you" from her, not being ignored.

Your DH sounds as though he expects constant interaction from her. Perhaps he got more of that when she was a small child, but things are changing now. DD is approaching adulthood although she definitely isn't there yet. She is also at a difficult and stressful point at school and maybe dealing with it in her own way (and it also seems that she has some mental health issues too).

The rule of thumb for me was no rudeness (and we'd deal with that if it happened), but quietness wasn't an issue. Maybe both of them need to adapt here.

It's a phase. In a couple of years she'll almost certainly be a very different person.

I agree with this. (Although more complicated in my as my mother was emotionally abusive at times).

In your mid teens you can be desperate for independence and it's not your choice to be in that household, you'd rather support yourself but society doesn't allow you to do that yet. So you're kind of trapped. It works be better to be able to move out and have a relationship with parents on your own terms, rather than enforced gratefulness.

I had to check that I had t gone back in time and posted this from 2 years ago! Everything you say resonated. DD and DH disliked each other. He thought inlet bad behaviour slide but there were other issues. She was spectacularly rude and he used to get cross and irritated and they'd have some spectacular rows. They're so similar- both over sensitive, thin skinned, bit anxious and both with tempers. Recipe for disaster. No interests or hobbies in common, nothing to talk about.

Things came to a head after one hellish weekend when I said I wasn't prepared to live like this and as DD was 15 regardless of rights or wrongs she needed to be my priority and they couldn't live together so either we would move out or DH would.
I genuinely meant it but it scared the life out of both of them. In the meantime I told DH he just needed to grey rock DD while we figured out what to do. He managed to ignore the rudeness. She tried to be less rude. Her therapy and medication started working....
She's 17 now and weekends are nice. They still don't have a lot in common but they watch the occasional film together, he rubs her places, they chat, she pretends to be interested in his music and he pretends to be interested in hers. She even dragged him onto the dance floor on holiday! It's so far apart from where we were. I have a WhatsApp group with my best friends. While all this was going on I messaged a lot. I read back over the posts recently and it feels like a different family.
What worked for us is DH essentially disengaging. I managed her for a while as I could cope better. It wasn't ideal but DH ended up doing a lot more with the younger one while I was busy and they are now very close. We gave up on family activities except eating together and are still a family!

"Takes her places!"

What a LOVELY post @lilacclementine

My DH sounds similar to yours , DD gets along better with me however she is also ruder to me than she is to him, because she can get away with it? DH just accepts it's a phase.
I'm struggling to guage the rudeness - thinks like 'you could've told me my lunch was on the table' when she just asked me to get it out the fridge.

ME 'Would you mind emptying your bin please? (she has forgotten job) replies 'You know it makes me stressed when you ask me to do chores, you're so mean'.
I cant believe youre not giving me a lift, you know how anxious I get getting the bus at a different stop.' - to this I caved and gave her a lift but did say that I wish she would be a bit nicer to me - to which she replied - ' well now you've just made me feel even worse!' Cue loads of guilt - I feel like we're just caught in a trap of making each other feel crap.
Sorry am rambling now but also feeling the teenage angst today of guilty parent, must try harder!

"Things he expects are for her to respond to questions when asked (she says I hate the How's school question), atleast 1 chore to be done daily and for her to appear downstairs other than meal times."

I'm with your DH here. These expectations are entirely reasonable and to be honest I'd expect a lot more from her. He's trying to get her to engage with family life which is positive and needed. You are ignoring her behaviour and that will lead to her further disconnecting.
If she doesn't like the "how's school" question, perhaps he can rephrase it to something more open, "how was your day?". Equally, if she doesn't have much of an answer she doesn't need to blank him, she could turn it into a conversation by answering "school was fine, how was your day".

How can you possibly say this without knowing more details? Which are definitely not in the thread.

Imagine if one of your colleagues insisted that you chat with them during lunch when you just wanted to quietly read a book. If that's not acceptable why would it be okay to force child into conversation.

Or imagine your colleague went out of their way to give you a lift home after work and they tried to chat with you. Would you just ignore them because you couldn't be bothered?

The bit that stood out to me was the kids are away at groups/clubs most days including weekends? Maybe she's knackered